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Old 09-04-2005, 09:12 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by Tzadkiel
I went to the ROAR site, and indeed we do have a Promotions Director (I actually found out we have EIGHT directors; I'll have to find out what they do because that surprised me). I went to the promotions section of the ROAR site, and they had a really cool "track pack" for starting an RC organization. I browsed through it; it looked like it covered a lot of good items and stuff I wouldn't have thought of immediately.

There was nothing else, however. Is ROAR conducting any promotions? Heck, I went to the News section and all I saw was a change in bylaws from October 2004 (almost a YEAR ago!) and the 2005 Nats schedule. Such things are cared about only by the ROAR members.

Actually, what kind of promotions can ROAR really hold? The budget is pretty low (low membership fee, few members). Advertising is expensive...

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Old 09-04-2005, 09:14 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by raffaelli
NO!

Carl, put together a proposal and send it to the Ex Com in time for their meeting in the early part of October. Do not let this end up 'in committee'
Agreed, working on it...how was vacation....have you checked the grid yet....I told you I was going to keep you around ROAR for as long as I am....
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Old 09-04-2005, 09:21 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by wad
How about restrictors on the carburator and maybe on the pipe?? I think that we can get them for $5 each one. This way we can make the tech process easier than open the motor to see the crank. If someone modify the engine, it will not make any difference on power.
What do you guys think??
actually no a bad idea as well...basically have somethig like a 5mm exhaust cap over the stinger..us a set screw to hold it in place....so a guy running an $800 engine is wasting his money...

My only concern...could it damage the engine...I doubt it, perhaps someone can give their knowledgable opinion on this...I'm not an expert in this area.

Our GOAL has always been to help reduce the cost of racing 1/8th scale by offering a spec class using lower cost engines...just seems like the offroad engine are much cheaper than the on-road.

something to think about
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Old 09-04-2005, 09:40 PM   #484
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The problem with Walter's idea is that a $200 engine with a restrictor will perform like a $200 engine with a restrictor, and $700 engine with a restrictor will perform like a $700 engine with a restrictor. What Im trying to say is that the restrictor will lower the performance of each engine the same amount, and the more expensive engine will still have more power. The restrictor might even lower the peroformance of the cheaper engine by a larger percentage than that of the more expensive engine.

Hope it makes sence.
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Old 09-05-2005, 12:01 AM   #485
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Then how about only restricting the faster motors when needed. Maybe treating it on a case by case basis, like typical club-level racing. Our race director takes votes on issues, and we tend to keep a pretty level playing field. If one guy's car is alot faster, drop in a restrictor, give'em time to re-tune, and play with it/get used to it. Sometimes slowing down is fun too...presents a new set of challanges.
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Old 09-05-2005, 12:56 AM   #486
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jefferylin the PLUS series, PLUS 3 has more bottom and mid range than a 321p and the PLUS 7 has more top end power than the 321p. A few of the really fast guys ran these motors a our state title event we just had. Some of the guys where happy with the engine others weren't. To be honest I ran a 321p and it was so reliable and had excellent power I don't think I'd bother trying one of the PLUS series.If you want all out power I think the JP R-03 would be the go.
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Old 09-05-2005, 01:11 AM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorman
Something for you guys to knaw on. Screw the tech, forget the port number, and institute a claimer rule. Top 3 finishers are in the noose. Any one can claim the engine outright starting at the bottom finishing position and moving upward in the field for 200.00 to 220.00 End of story. Give 30 minutes to claim the motor and produce cash. The result will be that the best bang for the buck stocker motor will shake itself out for everyone. And the guy who wants to take his chances with a whiz bang engine, well so be it.

Anyone who refuses the claimer is out of the class for the season. Simple, and effective.

Thats the way its done in limited cost dirt track racing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
So. I understand your proposal...Anyone can run any engine they like...the risk is the top 3 finisher each have to make their engines available for someone to purchase for $225...so baisically, if someone does not want to lose an $800 engine for $200 bucks they better not race it...

I know for a fact not one person in the NY/NJ area would turn over an engine, no matter what type of engine, for $225...(unless of course its stolen)....not a bad ideal, but I think it would create some bad blood a the track....
This idea was allready mentioned by Pieter Bervoets a while ago....


It seems to bee a good idea, but indeed it will create some bad blood on the track.....
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Old 09-05-2005, 06:21 AM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finchy
jefferylin the PLUS series, PLUS 3 has more bottom and mid range than a 321p and the PLUS 7 has more top end power than the 321p. A few of the really fast guys ran these motors a our state title event we just had. Some of the guys where happy with the engine others weren't. To be honest I ran a 321p and it was so reliable and had excellent power I don't think I'd bother trying one of the PLUS series.If you want all out power I think the JP R-03 would be the go.
Thanks finchy. I know the JP is good but I was looking also for a stock motor that I can use for club races.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:33 AM   #489
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How about the RB S7C II for a good spec motor? I recall em being around $200 bucks.
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:51 AM   #490
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Wow! Haven't made it back here in a few days, and several pages of replies to go thru! Apparently lot's of interest in the effort.
R/C pro series was mentioned (Carlton Eppes). He is moving forward with an on-road version. Leisure Hours is one of the host tracks for 2006! They are still under construction, but will be finished soon. World class facillity is what they are shooting for. Other host tracks have been established. Not shure of many of the details, but, it looks like we will have some additional races to attend next year.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, 5 port rule makes no sense to me at all. I don't see any correlation between port count and cost. Additionally, I feel a target price of $300 is too high. We all know that $100 one way or the other (with regard to purchase price of an engine) has little effect on what is spent for a season of racing. But, it has a big effect on the wallet on the day of purchase. Which translates to more participation.
Claiming rule directly addresses the cost issue. This should be seriously considered. Can it be done without the bad blood? Perhaps.
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Old 09-05-2005, 05:16 PM   #491
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duneland as posted before. The 5 port rule was done so that the high end motors can be excluded and there are a ton of manufacturers that make 5 port buggy engines that is in the 200-280 range. if there was no restrictions on the ports you will onlly get a hand full of manufacturers in the mix with some of them having reliability issues at least by reputation. So that might not be cost effective either. As for teching theres really no need to tech every one. just tech the top 3.
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Old 09-05-2005, 06:53 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
duneland as posted before. The 5 port rule was done so that the high end motors can be excluded and there are a ton of manufacturers that make 5 port buggy engines that is in the 200-280 range. if there was no restrictions on the ports you will onlly get a hand full of manufacturers in the mix with some of them having reliability issues at least by reputation. So that might not be cost effective either. As for teching theres really no need to tech every one. just tech the top 3.
Dana said that he is open to add the 1/8 Spec class on the RDLogics race if we have enough entries unafortunately my car won't be ready by then.
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Old 09-06-2005, 08:28 AM   #493
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Francis, The less expensive engines often have an unfair reliabillity (lack of)reputation. This is due to the fact that they are purchased by inexperienced racers that have no idea how to tune or care for an engine. The 5 port rule eliminates some less expensive choices, that are in many ways more suitable to this application. How does eliminating the port restriction result in fewer choices?
Any SERIOUS discusion about cost reduction, must direclty address the cost of racing. Counting ports does not do this. Claiming rule does. So does, simply compiling a list of engines in the appropriate price range. Anyone who thinks $300 is an inexpensive allternative, is in a different tax bracket than the people we are trying to attract.
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Old 09-06-2005, 09:56 AM   #494
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I don't care what anyone thinks about the "claiming rule"....IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!! There are other alternatives besides that! The average JOE RACER out there like me is simply not gonna go for that. If someone has to cheat to win.....then so be it. It's not fair to all those that race within the rules to have to be running against or beaten by someone that cheats. It happens in all forms of racing I know. People always try to stretch/bend/break the rules to their advantage. At the club level.....we all are there for fun and enjoyment....at least I am. If you have to cheat....I feel sorry for you as a person. I say if you are caught cheating.....simple.....you are banned from racing that class or at that track again. If I owned the track.....that's what I would do...... you would be banned!! Maybe 5 port engines is not the answer.....I like the dollar restriction limit better. Then there is list price versus street price. Where do we start? At least racers are talking about this.....in California we are trying to do something about it. If your track has decent turmnouts.....then don't worry about this if you are against it. Here in So. California 1/8 has dwindled down to 1 heat and maybe 2 on a good day. So for club races.....I think giving it a try is worth it. At the bigger races as well as Nats.....then revert back to established rules. SOMETHING has to give. My 2 cents.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:11 AM   #495
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Claiming rule doesn't work because people get attached to their possession whether good or bad. They put work in it to break it in properly etc. and now you win a race you've got to give it up and get another one to start over again?

I maintain that the best limit is the retail price of the engine. The purpose is to lower cost of entry and not number of port. If brand X has an engine that sells for $200 but has 7 ports why must I buy one that is $300 and has 5 ports?
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