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Old 09-01-2005, 08:29 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Rich Browne
Okay, in my area, San Francisco Bay Area, I am aware of one Off Road Track. It's in an the outlying area. I know of six, possibly more, on road racing venues. In this area, again relating to racers, it looks like "off-road" is less popular (with racers) than on-road. 10 years ago - we had four, very good, off road venues. Is the rest of the country different than us (racing of course).

I am not speaking about product sales - I'm talking about racers involvement
hi rich, i think your area is rare. considering you guys have a bigger following for 1/8th than sedan and offroad does not seem to be big there either.
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Old 09-01-2005, 08:31 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by nitrodude
Duneland brought a point that I made earlier on the tread. Theres very good engines with more than 5 ports that can be had for less than $300. By saying only 5 port engines, we are limiting the racers choices.

If theres a problem with buying used engine that are more than $300 when bought new, a list of allowed engines should be compiled and updated yearly. I againg bring up the O.S. VZ-RII, a very good engine for $300.
i think it is because limiting the engines to 5 port will give you a bigger list of manufacturers to choose from.
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Old 09-01-2005, 08:39 PM   #423
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I did a shitty job coping this from an electric site, but I think this say a lot about the concerns of this bobby. From a guy named "overgear"

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TRF415 MS Refine 2 (aka MSX) carries a list price of 73,290 yen!!! That's $670 in today's exchange rate! I know retail would be lower but this is just crazy!!!



a couple of my friends are quitting rc after many years of racing... the cost is just getting out of hand... i know i know... u don't need the latest stuffs to go fast... but still....
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Old 09-01-2005, 09:40 PM   #424
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LOL Carl you looking to get a MSX? I told my friend I'd rather spend that money on a 1/8 kit--faster and handles better!
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Old 09-01-2005, 10:43 PM   #425
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Carl, you said

"another class will divide the racers and lose interest"....the same argument can be made for a running the sportsman class...this is worse...by making drivers race in a sportsman class your telling them they are not ready to race with the "experts"...fuck that, that's why the dumbass class failed in the NY/CT...who decides who is good enough or not.....sportsman used to be 2wd 1/8th"

You're right, but as Rich pointed out the way we do it here is by having the drivers determine if they are Sportsman or not. We don't force anyone into the Sportsman class. Now there are a few guys who run Open who should be running Sportsman, but that's OK -- the benefits of having the whole group of drivers self-select far outweigh the disadvantages you describe of having some elite leader declare who is in what class.

That said, we do <try> to bump people up from Sportsman to Open if they do something like dominate the Sportsman class or win the points championship. Since it's a club, we rely on the good intentions of the drivers themselves to pick their class. It's worked great so far; we usually have about 50 or so 1/8 scale cars show up for each race with 50% more open guys than sportsman guys. This is our second year running Sportsman, and I'd be shocked if we didn't have it again next year.

That brings up another thought... having Sportsman class is, in its own way, a method of cost control. The difference between the winner of the A-Main in the Sportsman class and the 2nd place car in Sportsman is never speed; it's always driving. If you are getting the hang of things and are racing Sportsman, and you see that you can win if you just drive the right line and set your car up right, where is the incentive to buy a megabuck motor? When you see the winner of the Sportsman race do it with a $250 motor a lot of the allure of the big bhp motor goes away.

Maybe the whole solution to this "cheaper motor" problem is a well-run Sportsman class.

Tz
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Old 09-01-2005, 10:46 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M.
hi rich, i think your area is rare. considering you guys have a bigger following for 1/8th than sedan and offroad does not seem to be big there either.

Since we are so different - I was wondering how the Ohio area breaks down: Racers running off-road (Note, I said racers). Are there a great number off off-road tracks in the Ohio area? There seems to be alot of on-road racers there.
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:21 PM   #427
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Is carpet big in Ohio?

Tz
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:38 PM   #428
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8th scale is the pinnicle of rc racing, that's why I want to run it.

I wonder if an off road engine won't blow up the first time you try and gets some revs out of it, off roaders are always low in the PRM range
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:45 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theRED5
8th scale is the pinnicle of rc racing, that's why I want to run it.

I wonder if an off road engine won't blow up the first time you try and gets some revs out of it, off roaders are always low in the PRM range
I've seen the STS folks use their buggy engine in an on road race for testing purposes. Although it wasn't the fastest it certainly was competitive running middle of the pack.
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:56 AM   #430
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Would the off-road engine really blow up? I'd expect that since it's more of a torque motor it just won't have the airflow needed for high revs, so it just won't even get to an rpm where you'd worry about such a thing. Just like when you put a 7mm restrictor in an on-road motor; you just don't get the revs anymore because you are airflow-limited.

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Old 09-02-2005, 07:14 AM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreylin
LOL Carl you looking to get a MSX? I told my friend I'd rather spend that money on a 1/8 kit--faster and handles better!
Can't help it....I'm a sucka for Tamiya stuff....besides if all the top drivers are using it, its going to make me faster
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Old 09-02-2005, 07:21 AM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzadkiel
Carl, you said

"another class will divide the racers and lose interest"....the same argument can be made for a running the sportsman class...this is worse...by making drivers race in a sportsman class your telling them they are not ready to race with the "experts"...fuck that, that's why the dumbass class failed in the NY/CT...who decides who is good enough or not.....sportsman used to be 2wd 1/8th"

You're right, but as Rich pointed out the way we do it here is by having the drivers determine if they are Sportsman or not. We don't force anyone into the Sportsman class. Now there are a few guys who run Open who should be running Sportsman, but that's OK -- the benefits of having the whole group of drivers self-select far outweigh the disadvantages you describe of having some elite leader declare who is in what class.

That said, we do <try> to bump people up from Sportsman to Open if they do something like dominate the Sportsman class or win the points championship. Since it's a club, we rely on the good intentions of the drivers themselves to pick their class. It's worked great so far; we usually have about 50 or so 1/8 scale cars show up for each race with 50% more open guys than sportsman guys. This is our second year running Sportsman, and I'd be shocked if we didn't have it again next year.

That brings up another thought... having Sportsman class is, in its own way, a method of cost control. The difference between the winner of the A-Main in the Sportsman class and the 2nd place car in Sportsman is never speed; it's always driving. If you are getting the hang of things and are racing Sportsman, and you see that you can win if you just drive the right line and set your car up right, where is the incentive to buy a megabuck motor? When you see the winner of the Sportsman race do it with a $250 motor a lot of the allure of the big bhp motor goes away.

Maybe the whole solution to this "cheaper motor" problem is a well-run Sportsman class.

Tz
Sounds like your club found a way to run a sportsman club the right way...So the drivers sign-up for which ever classs and race that class all season...makes sense, it was different when NERCAR ran sportsman years ago....everyone had to start in sportsman...what made it worse was the sportsman guys did not run Lola bodies...forget the name of the other type..

A well sportsman class sounds great, the only things is how do you handle the guy who runs a modified engines in sportsman class....Seems to take away from the goal to promote a less expensive form of racing for 1/8th?
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Old 09-02-2005, 07:23 AM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theRED5
8th scale is the pinnicle of rc racing, that's why I want to run it.

I wonder if an off road engine won't blow up the first time you try and gets some revs out of it, off roaders are always low in the PRM range
I'll let you know in a few weeks...I plan on installing the tallest gears possible..
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Old 09-02-2005, 07:25 AM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theRED5
8th scale is the pinnicle of rc racing, that's why I want to run it.

I wonder if an off road engine won't blow up the first time you try and gets some revs out of it, off roaders are always low in the PRM range
Besides, some the 1/8th tracks in our area have limited space so all out top speed is not as critical...an off-road engine may be the ticket?
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Old 09-02-2005, 08:29 AM   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
Sounds like your club found a way to run a sportsman club the right way...So the drivers sign-up for which ever classs and race that class all season...makes sense, it was different when NERCAR ran sportsman years ago....everyone had to start in sportsman...what made it worse was the sportsman guys did not run Lola bodies...forget the name of the other type..

A well sportsman class sounds great, the only things is how do you handle the guy who runs a modified engines in sportsman class....Seems to take away from the goal to promote a less expensive form of racing for 1/8th?
Perhaps the problem, for all of RC racing (I mean racing), is the lack of draw into our sport (RC Racing). I don't believe this is an Eight Scale only issue. It is nice to see Eight grow, I applaud the efforts and energies. But and this is a very BIG but, I maintain our hobby is shrinking because the scales that use to feed eigth scale are dwindling. When I visit the racing venues in our area, including off-road - I see alot of the same faces. I think we (Racers) through our National Organization, ROAR, need to develope interest in our sport - Many ways to do this - but - we need to focus on doing it.

I started in the 80's - Competition Plus was the mag to read (All about Racing: Jay Halsey, Cliff Lett, Magic Man and some dude named Paris). The Ranch was hallowed ground. Now, we have Car Action - Lord, How many Monster Truck parts need to be sold. The Point, here, is they (the rags) don't focus on racing.

The Spec or Sportsman Class will help draw "newbies" into our arena - I support this.

I am afraid in 5 years the youngsters will rather play with Electronic Games than join us - The Next Generation needs to know we exist. There are plenty of Dads who would love to get there kids into an enviroment of fun - and outdoors.
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