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Old 08-31-2005, 07:24 AM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
Carl, with the spec engine idea, what if everyone had to run a specific engine, like the Mega 21? No questions about wether an engine is legal or not, and much easier to tech. Might be worth trying on the local level, ie BARCARC/NERCAR.

Well, we tried that this Year on the MACH track in Holland.
30 of the 40 club racers agreed to buy the Mega Sport, on an even special discounted price....
It didn't work out, only 10-15 really bought the engine and raced with it.....

Why?
I think because people don't like being forced to buy an engine they can't choose.
In my opinion you can better give technical regulations/restriction:
- 5 ports, non modified,
- 6-7 Minutes qualification, pitting NOT alowed


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
I run Mugen now, but will change to Serpent, buy Mega engines and support them the way I can, If all racers to the same, Novarossi and the others will be forced to cut prices.
I agree in what You say, and i'm also running the 950R/Mega combination in the dutch championship, but even while the engines are cheap, there are not running a lot of them, why?, people like to wait and see if the engines are fast enough to buy them........
But as the Mega is not as fast as a JP or NR, racers still won't buy them and pay 2-3 times more for a modified engine.......
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:42 AM   #347
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Rick, I will process a proposal for ROAR to consider in a few days. The proposal will be based upon suggestions fielded from this forum. (read earlier pages and arguments supporting this concept, please!!!)

All I can say to those guys who are opposed to a "SPEC" / "1/8th Stock" class.....No one is forcing you to race in this class....you can continue to race in the open class. 1/8th modified will not lose it prestigious title due to the introduction of a new class which may improve racer turnout.

TZ: the goal here is not to start a beginner class.
JR: your not considering that a SPEC engine will have less wear on the car and tires, which will reduce the racers overall seasonal cost of racing 1/8th scale. Modified engines are hard on every component throughout the chassis.
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:46 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by nitrodude
AS far as bodies go, I think we should be allowed to use whatever is used on the OPEN class, and if anybody wants to use the mclaresn and porches, they can use those. I think the restrictions should be on the engine alone, as that is the most expensive parts, other than the car.

We cant tell the manufactureres how much the engines should cost, but if enough people stop buying the really expensive ones, then they will have to make them for less or they will loose money.

Lets talk with our wallet people.
For starters, we are only talking about engines...all other 1/8th guidelines will remian unchanged
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Old 08-31-2005, 08:43 AM   #349
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Carl,

All the best in trying to revive the class in areas where it is suffereing. However please consider other costs. The motors alone will not be enough in my opinion. Maybe contact US manufacturers like JACO and also run a spec tire. Maybe they would consider a fixed cost, and compound for the class?

Good luck,

John
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Old 08-31-2005, 08:47 AM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrabbito
Carl,

All the best in trying to revive the class in areas where it is suffereing. However please consider other costs. The motors alone will not be enough in my opinion. Maybe contact US manufacturers like JACO and also run a spec tire. Maybe they would consider a fixed cost, and compound for the class?

Good luck,

John
Not a bad idea...a "SPEC" tire should be our next goal. Especially if the class has some success.
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Old 08-31-2005, 08:49 AM   #351
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FYI, just received my 5-port off-road engine yesterday...I forgot how much larger the off-road heads are. I doubt I'll overheat this engine...
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:09 AM   #352
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I have seen spec racing work well in karting, but in some of the spec classes there are spec tires and spec exhaust to go along with the spec motor and clutch. In events where Spec Racing is serious, so is the tech-inspection. I find it hard to believe that someone will donate their time every race to tech each and every entry.

As stated previous, if the Spec / Stock class separates the available racers that show to a weekend race, it will not make things any better. I would prefer to head up to race with Rams than run my car with 6 guys locally. I do enjoy spending time with the guys and hanging out, but we all want to race in larger numbers.

I think a number of the posts are from those who do not have 1/8th cars. They post their thoughts knowing nothing about the expense to run these cars, and probably feel the development of a Spec class will make 1/8th affordable. Those that do not have cars are not aware of the other costs and detail involved (stated well by Tzadkiel), and are missing the big picture.

2 of the classes that provided the entry level racer a low-cost option have been eliminated. The original 235mm 2-wheel drive class, and the 1/8 2-wheel drive class. Who decided removing these classes would be a good idea? Both of them were easy on tires, parts and motors and would be less expensive to race than a spec / stock 1/8th 4WD class. 5 ports motors can burn the tires just as quick as the other motors, so where does this class save, or get more people out to the track?

Again, I am not bashing..... I just dont think a new class will help things.
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:41 AM   #353
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The only problem with 2wd 235mm was the fact that only one manufacturer fully committed to the class...BMT started it (this was actually the car that got me into fuel on-road), serpent followed and built on the class, but no-one else really followed...There were a few company's that did something but for the most part, the class was doomed as it was dominated by Serpent.

Who knows, perhaps the popularity of a stock 1/8th may exceed the the popularity of modified.

Yes, we will need to work on finding a "SPEC" type tire and pipe...lets see how the engine concept works.
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:49 AM   #354
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onthegas,

Very well stated. I couldn't say it better myself. I was also very involved with karting at one time and some of the lower spec classes worked well back then. Look at the rotax max class now.

However the spec classes I have seen be succesful have all been supported by the manufacturers, run spec tires and motors, tech'd extremely tightly.....I just dont see the light here.

As onthegas, Tzadkiel and myself have posted I just don't see the saving by using a spec 5 port engine alone.

Carl as good as your intentions may be (and they are very well intentioned indeed) I think you may be drastically mistaken when you mention that a spec motor will alone lower overall costs.

You may be on the right track but if this is something you want to spearhead I beleive you need to involve manufacturers, clubs, and ROAR in these discussions. Some of which you are attempting already.

Please also however keep in mind that we (as an r/c comminity) would not want the majority of the people running in this class coming from 1/8 open. This would surely create a crisis in the class.

Be aware of the potential downside your ideas might have if not thought out properly.

John
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Old 08-31-2005, 12:43 PM   #355
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Hello John
This is something that everyone want agree on.
Like stated before if you don't agree with the direction of where this class is going don't run it.
This class will developed as it is being ran we do not have all the answers.
I like the constructive criticism but I have to disagree on all the negative criticism. We do not want to start with a control spec class were everyone runs the same product from one company, Jaco's are not available everywhere, same for GRP, Kawahara, Twister, GQ's ect............ keep in mind less power less wear and tear on your equipment.
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Old 08-31-2005, 01:04 PM   #356
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To have the attitude "if you don't like it don't run it" is negative also Robbie.

All I am saying is that you must consider both sides of the fence. You also have to take into consideration the potential negative impact it might have on existing 1/8 open numbers if not thought out properly.

Better to take time (even a year) and develop a truly viable "spec/stock" class. Maybe run a test session with modified and stock products. Look at tire wear and car wear. I am sure that the difference will not be great. I know I actually tested a stock engine to a modified one recently. I didn't want to mention this but....there was almost no difference.

I am not being negative by any stretch of the imagination. I am purely saying take your time, think it through and keep in mind the 1/8 Open community as a whole.

I actually would love to see a viable 1/8 "spec" class that doesnt interfere with current numbers. Overall it might be great. All I am saying is that I have been involved with other forms of motorsport where spec classes have been attempted.

Many were rushed without proper planning. Almost all failed. The ones that were succesfull all had manufacturer support, were easy to tech, and the products were available locally.

Do not be so closed minded, listen to what others have to say weather you agree or not. Talk to other clubs that attempted this control, see where they failed...learn from their mistakes.

John
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Old 08-31-2005, 01:18 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrabbito
To have the attitude "if you don't like it don't run it" is negative also Robbie.

All I am saying is that you must consider both sides of the fence. You also have to take into consideration the potential negative impact it might have on existing 1/8 open numbers if not thought out properly.

Better to take time (even a year) and develop a truly viable "spec/stock" class. Maybe run a test session with modified and stock products. Look at tire wear and car wear. I am sure that the difference will not be great. I know I actually tested a stock engine to a modified one recently. I didn't want to mention this but....there was almost no difference.

I am not being negative by any stretch of the imagination. I am purely saying take your time, think it through and keep in mind the 1/8 Open community as a whole.

I actually would love to see a viable 1/8 "spec" class that doesnt interfere with current numbers. Overall it might be great. All I am saying is that I have been involved with other forms of motorsport where spec classes have been attempted.

Many were rushed without proper planning. Almost all failed. The ones that were succesfull all had manufacturer support, were easy to tech, and the products were available locally.

Do not be so closed minded, listen to what others have to say weather you agree or not. Talk to other clubs that attempted this control, see where they failed...learn from their mistakes.

John
So I guess you want be running this class.
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Old 08-31-2005, 01:25 PM   #358
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robbie, robbie, robbie

correct I "WANT" be running the class
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Old 08-31-2005, 01:38 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrabbito
robbie, robbie, robbie

correct I "WANT" be running the class
I no just kidding.............lol
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Old 08-31-2005, 01:40 PM   #360
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LOL
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