2005 1/8th Gas Onroad European Championships in Athens, Greece.
07-24-2005, 03:33 PM
#91
Βεντούζα. 
07-24-2005, 05:39 PM
#92
It's 2005. Anyone racing has access to anything they'd like, should they wish to use it. All the car companies, and all the engine companies, have every opportunity to review the products that their competitors are making, using, and selling.
Fsturbo said it correctly - it's mostly the driver. All cars are not equal, and all engines are not equal, and probably that can be said for tires, clutches, shocks, bodies, and anything else you care to think about, but when it all comes together, the bottom line is what the driver can do with what he's got. There is no single definitioin for a car, or an engine, or anything else - it all gets tied up with setup, and how things are prepared for the race. If you take the "best" engine there is, and don't set it perfectly for the day's conditions, a driver who did this better will have an advantage. Ditto for a car.
Even if all the drivers were "equal", they all have different driving styles, and different preferences. At last year's worlds, there was a comparison made after the event between a car set up "like" Lamberto Collari likes them, and a car set up the way Josh Cyrul likes them. Josh's setup had lots of torque, and the driver had to regulate the trigger as throttle was applied. Lamberto's setup was such that you could just give full throttle, and the power would come on perfectly, as needed, no trigger modulation needed. As Josh put it later on, long after the event was over, there must be something to the way Lamberto configures things - just look at how many World Championships he's won.
When it comes to car setup, every book I've read emphasizes that a car that is "easy to drive" may very well not be the fastest. The fastest car might very well be one that's right on the edge, requiring expert skill to control. For the average racer reading all this, that's an important point. Most racers (should I say almost all racers?) don't have anything even close to the control of the experts, and would do better with a car that's "easier to drive". As they get better, they are in a position to handle a car that's closer to "the edge".
What I've been trying to do on the Starting Grid, is to explain things from the point of view of the "experts", but realizing that even they had to start out as beginners, to try to write things in a way that would benefit even the novice racer. As Ron Paris put it, a setup that worked for a beginner would be terrible for an expert - AND vice versa! All of this applies to the average guy, but take an expert, and give him an "average" car, and he'll probably put in a performance that would dominate almost any event.
What if you've got five, or ten experts, running together? If they were all "equal", then the slightest difference between their equipment could make all the difference. ...and their cars are not simply "which" car/engine/whatever they've got, but how it's set up for that particular track.
Fsturbo said it correctly - it's mostly the driver. All cars are not equal, and all engines are not equal, and probably that can be said for tires, clutches, shocks, bodies, and anything else you care to think about, but when it all comes together, the bottom line is what the driver can do with what he's got. There is no single definitioin for a car, or an engine, or anything else - it all gets tied up with setup, and how things are prepared for the race. If you take the "best" engine there is, and don't set it perfectly for the day's conditions, a driver who did this better will have an advantage. Ditto for a car.
Even if all the drivers were "equal", they all have different driving styles, and different preferences. At last year's worlds, there was a comparison made after the event between a car set up "like" Lamberto Collari likes them, and a car set up the way Josh Cyrul likes them. Josh's setup had lots of torque, and the driver had to regulate the trigger as throttle was applied. Lamberto's setup was such that you could just give full throttle, and the power would come on perfectly, as needed, no trigger modulation needed. As Josh put it later on, long after the event was over, there must be something to the way Lamberto configures things - just look at how many World Championships he's won.
When it comes to car setup, every book I've read emphasizes that a car that is "easy to drive" may very well not be the fastest. The fastest car might very well be one that's right on the edge, requiring expert skill to control. For the average racer reading all this, that's an important point. Most racers (should I say almost all racers?) don't have anything even close to the control of the experts, and would do better with a car that's "easier to drive". As they get better, they are in a position to handle a car that's closer to "the edge".
What I've been trying to do on the Starting Grid, is to explain things from the point of view of the "experts", but realizing that even they had to start out as beginners, to try to write things in a way that would benefit even the novice racer. As Ron Paris put it, a setup that worked for a beginner would be terrible for an expert - AND vice versa! All of this applies to the average guy, but take an expert, and give him an "average" car, and he'll probably put in a performance that would dominate almost any event.
What if you've got five, or ten experts, running together? If they were all "equal", then the slightest difference between their equipment could make all the difference. ...and their cars are not simply "which" car/engine/whatever they've got, but how it's set up for that particular track.
07-24-2005, 06:46 PM
#93
Mugen Rules!
07-24-2005, 09:00 PM
#94
Originally Posted by mikemyers
It's 2005. Anyone racing has access to anything they'd like, should they wish to use it. All the car companies, and all the engine companies, have every opportunity to review the products that their competitors are making, using, and selling.
Fsturbo said it correctly - it's mostly the driver. All cars are not equal, and all engines are not equal, and probably that can be said for tires, clutches, shocks, bodies, and anything else you care to think about, but when it all comes together, the bottom line is what the driver can do with what he's got. There is no single definitioin for a car, or an engine, or anything else - it all gets tied up with setup, and how things are prepared for the race. If you take the "best" engine there is, and don't set it perfectly for the day's conditions, a driver who did this better will have an advantage. Ditto for a car.
Even if all the drivers were "equal", they all have different driving styles, and different preferences. At last year's worlds, there was a comparison made after the event between a car set up "like" Lamberto Collari likes them, and a car set up the way Josh Cyrul likes them. Josh's setup had lots of torque, and the driver had to regulate the trigger as throttle was applied. Lamberto's setup was such that you could just give full throttle, and the power would come on perfectly, as needed, no trigger modulation needed. As Josh put it later on, long after the event was over, there must be something to the way Lamberto configures things - just look at how many World Championships he's won.
When it comes to car setup, every book I've read emphasizes that a car that is "easy to drive" may very well not be the fastest. The fastest car might very well be one that's right on the edge, requiring expert skill to control. For the average racer reading all this, that's an important point. Most racers (should I say almost all racers?) don't have anything even close to the control of the experts, and would do better with a car that's "easier to drive". As they get better, they are in a position to handle a car that's closer to "the edge".
What I've been trying to do on the Starting Grid, is to explain things from the point of view of the "experts", but realizing that even they had to start out as beginners, to try to write things in a way that would benefit even the novice racer. As Ron Paris put it, a setup that worked for a beginner would be terrible for an expert - AND vice versa! All of this applies to the average guy, but take an expert, and give him an "average" car, and he'll probably put in a performance that would dominate almost any event.
What if you've got five, or ten experts, running together? If they were all "equal", then the slightest difference between their equipment could make all the difference. ...and their cars are not simply "which" car/engine/whatever they've got, but how it's set up for that particular track.
Fsturbo said it correctly - it's mostly the driver. All cars are not equal, and all engines are not equal, and probably that can be said for tires, clutches, shocks, bodies, and anything else you care to think about, but when it all comes together, the bottom line is what the driver can do with what he's got. There is no single definitioin for a car, or an engine, or anything else - it all gets tied up with setup, and how things are prepared for the race. If you take the "best" engine there is, and don't set it perfectly for the day's conditions, a driver who did this better will have an advantage. Ditto for a car.
Even if all the drivers were "equal", they all have different driving styles, and different preferences. At last year's worlds, there was a comparison made after the event between a car set up "like" Lamberto Collari likes them, and a car set up the way Josh Cyrul likes them. Josh's setup had lots of torque, and the driver had to regulate the trigger as throttle was applied. Lamberto's setup was such that you could just give full throttle, and the power would come on perfectly, as needed, no trigger modulation needed. As Josh put it later on, long after the event was over, there must be something to the way Lamberto configures things - just look at how many World Championships he's won.
When it comes to car setup, every book I've read emphasizes that a car that is "easy to drive" may very well not be the fastest. The fastest car might very well be one that's right on the edge, requiring expert skill to control. For the average racer reading all this, that's an important point. Most racers (should I say almost all racers?) don't have anything even close to the control of the experts, and would do better with a car that's "easier to drive". As they get better, they are in a position to handle a car that's closer to "the edge".
What I've been trying to do on the Starting Grid, is to explain things from the point of view of the "experts", but realizing that even they had to start out as beginners, to try to write things in a way that would benefit even the novice racer. As Ron Paris put it, a setup that worked for a beginner would be terrible for an expert - AND vice versa! All of this applies to the average guy, but take an expert, and give him an "average" car, and he'll probably put in a performance that would dominate almost any event.
What if you've got five, or ten experts, running together? If they were all "equal", then the slightest difference between their equipment could make all the difference. ...and their cars are not simply "which" car/engine/whatever they've got, but how it's set up for that particular track.
Couldnt have sum it up better.. well said.
But we do all know that every car has its own so-called weakness and strength, its all up to the individual's preference of the type of car, engine, equpiment. Bottom line is, in this hobby/race we are all just out to have fun!
07-24-2005, 10:01 PM
#95
Originally Posted by mikemyers
Josh's setup had lots of torque, and the driver had to regulate the trigger as throttle was applied.
Does Josh alter his setup by way of the throttle curve adjustment on his radio ? I'd love to know the way he sets his radio, whether he uses all linear values or does some minor adjustments to setup his car.
07-25-2005, 12:26 AM
#96
I'll ask him, as I never did ask him that specific question. I did ask many other people, and I got two sets of answers. The "novice" racers tried to use all those fancy controls and settings to make it "easier" to control the car, while the "experts" set everything very linear - whatever they did with their finger, they wanted the car to respond accordingly. If they move the throttle (or steering) 1/8 of full travel, they want the corresponding function on the car to move 1/8 of full travel - and this applies whether they're at the "beginning", the "middle", or near the "end" of the travel. It's like the steering wheel on your car, or the gas pedal on your car - however much you move your hand (or foot), you want the car to respond directly to what you've done.
Anyway, I'll ask Josh that question, and find out.
By the way, I've seen Josh pick up a radio he's not used to using, with a car he's never driven before, take one lap at a track, and then set off at a pace that nobody at the track could match. Had I not seen it firsthand (it was an experimental car that I brought up to Michigan from Florida back in the early 1990's) I wouldn't have thought it possible. Another driver tried the car, and said it was too hard to drive. It was a 1/10 scale car, on a 1/12 scale track. Josh took the one lap, then went flat out. The other driver was just amazed - and shaken. People like Josh have so much control of the car, that I don't think changing the throttle curve one way or another would make that much of a difference.... and also, Josh races so many different cars, in different types of racing, that I think he'd prefer everything to just be linear. I could be wrong though - I'll find out.
Anyway, I'll ask Josh that question, and find out.
By the way, I've seen Josh pick up a radio he's not used to using, with a car he's never driven before, take one lap at a track, and then set off at a pace that nobody at the track could match. Had I not seen it firsthand (it was an experimental car that I brought up to Michigan from Florida back in the early 1990's) I wouldn't have thought it possible. Another driver tried the car, and said it was too hard to drive. It was a 1/10 scale car, on a 1/12 scale track. Josh took the one lap, then went flat out. The other driver was just amazed - and shaken. People like Josh have so much control of the car, that I don't think changing the throttle curve one way or another would make that much of a difference.... and also, Josh races so many different cars, in different types of racing, that I think he'd prefer everything to just be linear. I could be wrong though - I'll find out.
07-25-2005, 06:45 AM
#97
Originally Posted by _cyclops_
it all mathers, but if there's no good engine, there's no way to win.... doesn't mather how good the driver is...
07-25-2005, 10:33 AM
#98
Tech Addict
RESULTS: 1/8th Gas Onroad Euro Champs - Athens
Well, that looked like an absolutely awsome event. Thanks again to John D. for bringing it into my home in living colour! Those photos were so good - and when enlarged I could clearly see even what "brand" of body the racers were using. It was very satisfying to see the top 3 qualifiers as well as overall winner appeared to be using "genuine" PROTOform Lola T530 bodies. Especially satifying in light of the many ripped-off, back-poured "counterfeit" T530's that are produced in Holland, Taiwan amd China etc. Yes, I know I should be flattered by all this blatant copying, however I'm not. Just disappointed with some of those companies doing it. Companies who only show their lack of professionalism by such tactics.
But hey, I don't want to sound negative on this beautiful monday morning. CONGRADULATIONS to Daniel Ielasi and the others who did well with our race bodies! Congradulations also, to the young Greek racer (could'nt find his name) who won the trophy for "Best Paint." Nice work!
The upcoming Worlds should be amazing.
Dale Epp - PROTOform Race Bodies
But hey, I don't want to sound negative on this beautiful monday morning. CONGRADULATIONS to Daniel Ielasi and the others who did well with our race bodies! Congradulations also, to the young Greek racer (could'nt find his name) who won the trophy for "Best Paint." Nice work!
The upcoming Worlds should be amazing.
Dale Epp - PROTOform Race Bodies
07-25-2005, 11:54 PM
#99
Tech Rookie
More EC photos
Ielasi's car photos
07-26-2005, 12:06 AM
#100
Tech Rookie
Best EC 1/8 Body Paint
Best EC 1/8 Body Paint on the track from Belgium and Holland
07-26-2005, 12:44 AM
#101
Tech Rookie
[QUOTE=suntok2]
And mechanc too
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
A few words now for the MRX 4 of TQ driver Daniel Ielasi.
He is running a PICCO engine and in fact PICCO him self is present constantly monitoring his engine performance.
Can you ask Ielasi why did he leave Novarossi?
He is running a PICCO engine and in fact PICCO him self is present constantly monitoring his engine performance.
Can you ask Ielasi why did he leave Novarossi?
07-26-2005, 01:15 AM
#102
Originally Posted by daleepp
Well, that looked like an absolutely awsome event. Thanks again to John D. for bringing it into my home in living colour! Those photos were so good - and when enlarged I could clearly see even what "brand" of body the racers were using. It was very satisfying to see the top 3 qualifiers as well as overall winner appeared to be using "genuine" PROTOform Lola T530 bodies. Especially satifying in light of the many ripped-off, back-poured "counterfeit" T530's that are produced in Holland, Taiwan amd China etc. Yes, I know I should be flattered by all this blatant copying, however I'm not. Just disappointed with some of those companies doing it. Companies who only show their lack of professionalism by such tactics.
But hey, I don't want to sound negative on this beautiful monday morning. CONGRADULATIONS to Daniel Ielasi and the others who did well with our race bodies! Congradulations also, to the young Greek racer (could'nt find his name) who won the trophy for "Best Paint." Nice work!
The upcoming Worlds should be amazing.
Dale Epp - PROTOform Race Bodies
But hey, I don't want to sound negative on this beautiful monday morning. CONGRADULATIONS to Daniel Ielasi and the others who did well with our race bodies! Congradulations also, to the young Greek racer (could'nt find his name) who won the trophy for "Best Paint." Nice work!
The upcoming Worlds should be amazing.
Dale Epp - PROTOform Race Bodies
07-26-2005, 01:52 AM
#103
Here are some pics of the body and the car. The quality is not that great since i've used my cell to take the pics.
07-26-2005, 02:28 AM
#104
Hi john how did the new Novarossi perform i saw a pic on this thread of the new Novarossi plus 21-3
Regards
Regards
07-26-2005, 02:49 AM
#105
Robert Pietch had Novarossi engine on his MRX 4. He qualified and finished in 2nd position so I consider this a success.
He did experience a drop in performance during the final but I could not tell if it was engine problem or centax/clutch related.
Overall the Novarossi engines worked well, on non sponsored cars as well.
He did experience a drop in performance during the final but I could not tell if it was engine problem or centax/clutch related.
Overall the Novarossi engines worked well, on non sponsored cars as well.