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Old 11-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #1
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Default Vintage 2wd Race Proposal, please read!!

Some of us who've been around a long time remember the roots of our hobby. Delta, Associated, MRP....a lot of good cars made and raced. The Midwest Series was booming, between Open and Superstock classes, and we reguarly had 80-100 drivers show up for a series race. These were the days of Carbonell, Davis, Paris, Thorp, Husting, Losi....a lot of very good drivers and modellers who spent a lot of time (and money) devoted to onroad racing.

In 1983, we saw the mainstream advent of 2wd suspension. Barely two years later,suspension. The complexity of the cars, and the price tags, started to climb, along with the fragility of the cars, until it's morphed into what it is today. It's still a lot of fun, but we don't have the numbers attending like we used to. Some of that is due to the economy, the bloody internet, cell phones, and lots of other things that my daughter absolutely must have, cost me money, and does me no good (hmm, I'm getting off point, maybe.)

Over the past two years, we in Toledo, Ohio, have been working to bring back 2wd pan car racing. There are several companies producing 2wd kits (we at BC/RC will be manufacturing one for sale as well soon) and our numbers are slowly increasing. 2wd offers a lot of fun for a little less money; they are far more durable, require a lot less maintenance, and serve as both a good starting point for the newbie as well as the experienced racer who wants to save money and not spend so much time in the pits wrenching.

I have a bunch of old equipment, mostly Delta. I was a team driver for Delta back in the day, and I still take my SuperJ to the track occasionally, just to run laps. It still does pretty well, and I even managed a club win with it.

Every year, we have the Great Lakes Challenge. For those who don't know, it's a large event, reguarly attended by more than 100 racers from all across the country..we even get international racers at our event. We have an excellent track, good facillities, and a motivated club membership who put on a flawless and enjoyable race. This past event, we had racing in 1/8 open, 1/8 masters, 1/10 open, 1/10 masters, GT....and PAN! I believe we had 14 in the field, pretty good for a re-emerging class. We have high hopes that over time, pan racing will take the field in comparable or better numbers than the other classes, because it is a lot cheaper and just as much fun without some of the headaches of 4wd.

Long story short (too late), I started wondering if there would be interest in a Vintage heat at the GLC, where people could come and race their vintage cars, and shake the dust off the shelf queens. I mentioned this idea in the 2wd forum two days ago, and already have seven firm commitments to run. In two days, we've already got a minimum field including Delta, Associated, and MRP. One member has kindly offered to provide trophies, I've offered to sponsor the run and provide prizes.

We have not yet gone to the club to ok this idea yet, tho most of us are members and I believe the response will be favorable. It would be an opportunity to see "history in motion", to get one more day in the sun for the cars that started this hobby of ours. An opportunity to see some of the old faces and cars, to get pictures and video of what used to be the last word in RC racing.

I AM ASKING that everyone with an interest in attending this race to please make a comment in this forum with your intent and thoughts.

We would race under the rules as they existed in 1983.
a. No suspension.
b. Vintage motors, or 5 port (or less) new motors.
c. Vintage bodies strongly recommended, your choice as to open wheel, can-am or gt.
d. The cars must be vintage, they must be a car in production prior to 1983 (this includes what few cars were sold after 1983.)
e. There will be a tech, using the existing ROAR rules as per weight, height, fuel capacity, and so forth.

Obviously, someone will win the event, but this isn't about winning. This is about honoring the past, giving an opportunity for people to see kits they've never seen except in pictures. A fantastic opportunity for pics and video, and a chance to compete with cars that were so well made, they are still around 30 years later.

We already have seven firm commitments. But I'm putting this word out to reach people all over, I know there's a lot of you guys in California, Florida, and Texas with shelf queens....some of you who used to race those cars, and some of you who've never had that chance. I'm hoping to get some response, and see what the level of interest is, so we can plan accordingly. The GLC is typically held in late August. We don't know the exact dates yet, but I will post asap so people can plan to attend.

It would be fun and awesome to see our old cars brought back to life.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:28 AM   #2
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Sounds like fun! But right now I don't know if I could make it.

Keep in mind that you can hold this gathering with or without any club permission. It could be run informally, as a "race within a race", with the cars running in the normal pan class (I can't believe I just said "normal" and "pan" together!). Present awards based on the final performance, even if the cars are scattered through the rest of the field, like endurance or SCCA club racing.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:22 AM   #3
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Phil you know I'm in but this makes it official I guess. Me and my Cook Super J will be there.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:48 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
Sounds like fun! But right now I don't know if I could make it.

Keep in mind that you can hold this gathering with or without any club permission. It could be run informally, as a "race within a race", with the cars running in the normal pan class (I can't believe I just said "normal" and "pan" together!). Present awards based on the final performance, even if the cars are scattered through the rest of the field, like endurance or SCCA club racing.
Howard, see if this can get into your schedule and I'll pick you up in route and do the pitting for you. It would be like the old days. Heck I might even dust off the old Serpent 2wd suspension car and make some laps in between rounds .......
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:16 AM   #5
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Darn it!!! My 2wd happens to be a 235mm Serpent Impact. Now, that is the class that I wish would come back. But, any nitro 2wd class is a "drivers' class" because it teaches a racer more throttle control. Just my opinion.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:52 AM   #6
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Sounds like fun! But right now I don't know if I could make it.

Keep in mind that you can hold this gathering with or without any club permission. It could be run informally, as a "race within a race", with the cars running in the normal pan class (I can't believe I just said "normal" and "pan" together!). Present awards based on the final performance, even if the cars are scattered through the rest of the field, like endurance or SCCA club racing.
The only way is if they fit to the "pan rules that have been put into place"
Sorry no open motor vintage cars running with all the other pan cars.
3 port motors
correct weight
ect ect

There is only 1 pan class so its kind of redundant.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:45 PM   #7
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The only way is if they fit to the "pan rules that have been put into place"
Sorry no open motor vintage cars running with all the other pan cars.
3 port motors
correct weight
ect ect

There is only 1 pan class so its kind of redundant.
Yes, everyone runs to the same rules if they run together.

Our 2WD and pan gang always ran with the 4WD cars; we never had separate classes, as there were rarely enough cars. I always had somebody to race with, despite the disadvantage. It was a ton of fun! When I would finish third against the 4WD cars, it sure felt like first place.

And it doesn't matter if it's redundant, as long as it's fun for those involved.
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Old 11-18-2013, 01:09 PM   #8
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Default Hmm

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Originally Posted by Vector03cobra View Post
The only way is if they fit to the "pan rules that have been put into place"
Sorry no open motor vintage cars running with all the other pan cars.
3 port motors
correct weight
ect ect

There is only 1 pan class so its kind of redundant.
Right now, the proposal is to run Vintage seperately from modern pan, to allow the old engines, and new engines be restricted to 5 port. Again, this isn't a CLASS as much as it is an EXHIBITION. It is not meant to take away from modern pan in any way, and in my opinion, it would actually help motivate interest in modern pan. I'd prefer not to run vintage with modern pan anyway, as the vintage are built a little tougher.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:14 PM   #9
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Yes, everyone runs to the same rules if they run together.

Our 2WD and pan gang always ran with the 4WD cars; we never had separate classes, as there were rarely enough cars. I always had somebody to race with, despite the disadvantage. It was a ton of fun! When I would finish third against the 4WD cars, it sure felt like first place.

And it doesn't matter if it's redundant, as long as it's fun for those involved.
Yes those were the days. We ran 1/8 gas, so if you had 4wd, 2wd suspension or pan cars one class and 2 - 4 heats. Howard did put his pan car in the A on many weekends. We would also have 2-4 2wd cars in the A-main, and based on the talent that was here at that time, it was good. Great racing and made some of us much faster when we traveled ......... this goes out for Chuck and Eric ....... me not so much.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:06 PM   #10
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For what My Delta and Cook cars are worth, On todays market,I will never race them,
The newer cars handle so much better and are a lot faster, and if you break your
vintage collectable car you may have a hard time finding parts most of these cars
and parts have been shipped overseas and are being put in museum
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