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Old 08-16-2006, 03:54 PM   #1546
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Very interesting arrangement, however, this is where I might be getting confused.

It appears, at rest, the upper arms have approximately the space of a 4mm castor clip.. However, when you compress the suspension (replicating the transfer of weight into the corner), it reduces the castor to an approximate 2mm gap.

In reviewing both the Hudy set-up guide, and the set-up guide provided with the Serpent 960 kit. Both guides recommend more castor, not less, to improve understeer at mid corner and corner exit off or on throttle.

Wouldn't you want more castor during mid-corner for traction?

I'm curious what you find happens with the thinner shock oils.
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Old 08-16-2006, 04:00 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darint
Very interesting arrangement, however, this is where I might be getting confused.

It appears, at rest, the upper arms have approximately the space of a 4mm castor clip.. However, when you compress the suspension (replicating the transfer of weight into the corner), it reduces the castor to an approximate 2mm gap.

In reviewing both the Hudy set-up guide, and the set-up guide provided with the Serpent 960 kit. Both guides recommend more castor, not less, to improve understeer at mid corner and corner exit off or on throttle.

Wouldn't you want more castor during mid-corner for traction?

I'm curious what you find happens with the thinner shock oils.
I am taking a stab at this. First let me say very interesting. When you enter the turn, the weight transfers to the front, which gives less caster and provides more sterring. At mid corner and exit, the weight is no longer on the front but moving to the rear, thus giving more caster and giving more steering in the middle and exit.
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Old 08-16-2006, 04:02 PM   #1548
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I had the same idea, but thought about it again and it is an interesting modification....

While under acceleration exiting a corner, the weight transfers to the back of the car, which will lift the front,the upper arms move backwards, which then gives more caster "on power", this is what you want.

While under braking the weight transfers to the front, which will lower the front, the upper arms move forward, which then gives less caster "off power", and this is also what you want.......
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Old 08-16-2006, 04:03 PM   #1549
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DJ and I are on the same wavelength......
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:22 AM   #1550
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Hello Paolo,

Have you test the 950R Steering blocks? what were your feelings?

Thank you
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Old 08-17-2006, 04:52 AM   #1551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roedor
Hello Paolo,

Have you test the 950R Steering blocks? what were your feelings?

Thank you
Read Salven his report from the 1/8 Euro's....
http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=11995
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Old 08-17-2006, 04:58 AM   #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj apolaro
I am taking a stab at this. First let me say very interesting. When you enter the turn, the weight transfers to the front, which gives less caster and provides more sterring. At mid corner and exit, the weight is no longer on the front but moving to the rear, thus giving more caster and giving more steering in the middle and exit.
I asked around and heard that some years ago, BMT and the Serpent Vector (among others) had a similar system, but by mounting the upper arm attached to the chassis, under an angle, this gives the same effect.
Problem was, that when exiting a corner to fast, and the car in "understeermode" (due to the too high speed) releasing the throttle made the understeer even worse, result.. crash.....
Also the car is a bit unpredictable.......
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:51 AM   #1553
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It works exactly as M7H & dj described. Yes, angling the upper arm mount(raising the rear) will also give a 'dynamic' or 're-active' castor. This approach is more effective. 1/10 & 1/12 pan cars have been running the angled upper arm style for years.
When I installed it on my 960, I noticed an immediate improvement in steering everywhere on the track. I used an old rear shock tower (broken earlier in the season) for mounting the ball studs on the upper deck, due to the fact that, there was nothing but air where they should be mounted.
Anyway,,,Yesterdays' practice session went pretty good (nice to have a track to practice on! Leisure Hours just got their asphalt track going. Prior to this, the only track time I have had is at races--mostly MWS).
First, I tried lowering, then raising the front upper arm mount (I had one set that I machined down to lower the mount position). Raising it helped a bunch(so much, for the time I spent modding the mounts!). Made a few pipe, clutch changes....Made some headway there. Then changed the shocks. Went to 4 holes/50wt/yellow springs front. 3 holes/50wt/red springs rear. Left the mount positions where they were. Re-attached the front bar, flat position. Put about 30 deg on the rear bars. YES! Felt really good. Then the connecting rod stopped connecting .
The Leisure hours track is going to be pretty nice. The asphalt is still pretty 'green', but it was better this week than last. The layout that was up yesterday will be the one for the Pro-Series race this weekend. For those that are attending, it is FAST! My car was shifting 4 times per lap! It has pretty good flow & is fun to drive on. The track features an elevated pit lane, that works very well. Only complaint is the un-necessarilly(sp?) long entrance & exit lanes.
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:24 AM   #1554
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Very neat and nice works.. seems like you`ve been driving Trinity pan cars in the old days?
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Old 08-17-2006, 01:22 PM   #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roedor
Hello Paolo,

Have you test the 950R Steering blocks? what were your feelings?

Thank you
hey Roedor,

Yes i did. They improve the steering in the corner under braking (wich mean the very last part of the corner when you transfer the weigth to the front). In some tracks i like it, in other is too much. I see it as an additional tuning option.

Paolo
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:11 PM   #1556
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cool thats good to know
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Old 08-18-2006, 01:55 PM   #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duneland
OK, maybe someone can point me in the right direction here. I will list my current set-up. I have not been able to get enough steering (mostly concerned with entry & apex).
Front;
50wt (serpent oil) 3 holes/red springs
lower hole on tower
Sway bar disconnected
Dynamic caster set-up (this helped some, would have to post pics but it reduces caster as suspension is compressed).
35sh Serpent/Jaco
Short wheelbase helped, but had to go back to long for exhaust clearance.
0mm roll center spacers
Rear;
50wt. 2 holes/blue springs
Upper hole on tower
20 degrees or so sway bar
38sh Serpent/Jaco
middle roll center position for lower pins
I have adjusted toe & camber settings through the normal range.
I have also moved a bit of weight forward (1 once of lead to front of battery tray, LiPo battery behind the lead. Result is same weight as NiMh but slightly more forward).
The Jaco 38's test 2-3 points softer than the Jaco 35's! Will try 40 rear/35 front.
Any other ideas?

Duneland,

Here are the things I would try:

Reconnect the front sway bar, but leave at 0 degrees, put the rear sway bar to 45 degrees. Add toe out in the front. What is your front track width set at? Try narrowing it 1 or 2 mm. Put the front shocks to the upper position. You may also get more initial steering response with Blue front springs.

It sounds like you want your car to respond when you turn....with your current setup its really not responding at all. I'm thinking your car is rolling over in the front causing it to push. So it may be that your car is TOO soft in the front, making the car understeer/push and unresponsive when you turn the wheel (especially with 35 tires, Red springs and no front sway bar at all). Most importantly, check your Dual Rate on your transmitter for full steering travel. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-18-2006, 02:29 PM   #1558
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Kendall,
Thanks for the response. A few posts up, I reported that I got it going pretty good. Problem was mainly front roll-center & shocks too stiff. I added spacers under the front arm mounts went softer on front and rear springs & one more hole open front & rear pistons. This allowed for more weight transfer & the roll-center change kept more of it up front.
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Old 08-18-2006, 02:55 PM   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duneland
Kendall,
Thanks for the response. A few posts up, I reported that I got it going pretty good. Problem was mainly front roll-center & shocks too stiff. I added spacers under the front arm mounts went softer on front and rear springs & one more hole open front & rear pistons. This allowed for more weight transfer & the roll-center change kept more of it up front.

Good to hear your car is headed in the right direction. Everybody drives their car a little differently and uses slightly different techniques to get the most out it.
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Old 08-23-2006, 05:34 AM   #1560
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Here are some new optional parts available for the 960.

http://www.mytsn.com/products/imggal.asp?prid=4346

http://www.mytsn.com/products/imggal.asp?prid=4345
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