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Old 10-30-2013, 01:30 PM   #16
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The max wheelbase per roar is 379 the wheel base for the gt8L is 360 from what I can find
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:06 PM   #17
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I gotta agree with most everybody here. ROAR dropped the ball on this. *1speedy nailed it on the head for me.

Dish wheels, carb insert, bodies, and the grand-daddy'd flat chassis rule. I also would have liked to have seen the engine choices be open from .21-.28, as long as it's an open .21's rule I'm good with that.

The same set of tires is just a joke!

As are most of this rule set lol. Anyhow. Bravo ROAR, and bbooooo in the same breath. Let's do some adjustments on these rules!
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:11 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by -R2- View Post
GT8 class has always had bodies that don't conform to the OG specs to the body, the chassis don't meet the spec of the body for an accurate detail, we had made bodies to get close then the car manufacture didn't like what we did so we had to scrap those bodies and no longer sell. We had Porche and they didn't want us to sell them so we were no longer allowed to sell, a Toy Celica again "scrapped" and couple of other in the past. But the customers loved them even though they looked a littler cartoony thats because 1/8th was one length. So now we are making two new bodies that will turn heads and will be fun to drive and race but will not be a LIC. body just for the fact we do not want to deal with litigation. We have been sued several times as for what we cannot do and yet some of these things have been out before a major manufacture had a car in the name or design. And we're talking about 1 to 1 car manufactures on the most stupid thing. So for me and OFNA are going to make some bodies that will not comply but they will have our customers wanting to buy for sheer speed and fun, and if they race I take it they will find a race that does not have ROAR involed, sad to hear.
The problem with body definition seems to be that ROAR doesn´t know what the origins of the class wanted to replicate.
This class name GT come from the 1:1 Grand Touring (from the Italian word Gran Turismo) racing is the most common form of sports car racing, and is found all over the world, in both international and national series. Historically, Grand Touring cars had to be in series production, but in 1976 the class was split into production based Group 4 Grand Touring Cars and Group 5 Special Production Cars which were essentially pure-bred racing cars with production-look-alike bodies.
GT racing gradually fell into abeyance in Europe in the 1980s and 1990s, with silhouette cars continuing to race in IMSA races in the USA. When GT racing revived after the collapse of the World Sports Car Championship at the end of 1992, the lead in defining rules was taken by the ACO.

Under the ACO rules, Grand Touring cars are divided into two categories, Grand Touring 1 (GT1, formerly GTS) and Grand Touring 2 (GT2, formerly GT). As the name of the class implies, the exterior of the car closely resembles that of the production version, while the internal fittings may differ greatly. GT2 cars are very similar to the FIA GT2 classification, and are 'pure' GT cars; that is production exotic cars with relatively few internal modifications for racing. The Porsche 911 is currently the most popular car in the GT2 class. 2009 will be the last run of the GT1 class as a result of budgeting issues. GT1 teams are currently enlisting to run their cars in the GT2 class next year.

FIA divides GT cars into four categories called GT1 (formerly GT), GT2 (formerly N-GT), GT3 (recently introduced) and GT4. The GT1 and GT2 divisions are very close to the ACO rules outlined above, and again some crossover racing does occur, particularly in the GT2 class. The GT3 class is relatively new and was introduced for 2006. These cars are closer to standard form than in GT2, and in most cases modifications are restricted to those found in one-make cups. GT4 is another new category for non-professional drivers in production-based cars with very few racing modifications - for example, no aerodynamic aids or body modifications are permitted.

Grand-Am has only one class for Grand Touring cars which allows production-based GT racers at a spec somewhere between FIA GT2 and GT3 in terms of modification (e.g. the Porsche 911 GT3 Cup) to compete with purpose-built tube-frame "silhouette" machines reminiscent of the former IMSA GTO/GTU classes.

Technology Escalation and Control in FIA GT RacingWhile GT cars are at least in theory based on road going versions, some GT1 cars in the mid to late 1990s were effectively purpose-built sports-prototypes which spawned exotic production cars with homologation production limits of 25 cars (for small manufacturers, such as Saleen) or 100 cars (for major manufacturers like DaimlerChrysler). The original form of GT1 racing was dropped in 1998 because of rising costs. The GT1 class was for the purebred supercars and purpose-built race cars, such as the McLaren F1 GTR, Ferrari F40, Porsche 911 GT1, Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR, Toyota GT-One and Nissan R390 - while the first two were a derivatives of roadgoing sports cars, the German and Japanese contenders were pure-bred racing cars - virtually sports prototypes. Rising costs coupled with declining entries led to the death of this class, and it was replaced by what was then GT2 (FIA, which evolved into the current GT1) and Le Mans Prototype (LMP, by the ACO).

So after a Little history review, our body rules for the South American Pacific Cup is the following and makes more sense.
4. - Body:Any closed body type " Gran Turismo - GT" , commercially available in the market and that fits the definition of vehicles in GT racing categories in real life : ".... a car that has no more than one door at each side and at least two seats situated on either side of the longitudinal center line of the vehicle, capable of being used perfectly legal on the road and then adapted to competition in circuits or closed routes " (should look like a real life car that could be driven on the street with a passenger) .

Regards
AFM

Last edited by afm; 10-30-2013 at 02:12 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:32 PM   #19
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afm,

Love the history lesson!!!

Possibly the first time that I have noticed anyone use abeyance and homologation together in a single post here on rctech!!
Nicely done.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:15 PM   #20
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I am happy to see hard rules from roar i may not agree with all of them but now it has a chance to grow and be competed at a national level unfortunately my GTP due to mods are now not legal and obsolete
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:16 PM   #21
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I am happy to see hard rules from roar i may not agree with all of them but now it has a chance to grow and be competed at a national level unfortunately my GTP due to mods are now not legal and obsolete
I hate to admit it but I have to agree with you. At least they have started to do something with GT8.
My car too is ilegal ...... but only for ROAR sanctioned events.

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Old 10-30-2013, 04:34 PM   #22
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Same tires all weekend???
......• All races must be completed on the same tires used to start each race (qualifying and finals). Tire changes are not permitted except when a wheel and/or tire are determined by the race director or a ROAR official, to be damaged. Excessive tire wear does not constitute damage.....


I fail to see ANYTHING in this rule as written that requires running the same set of tires all weekend. Qualifier one is a "race"......qualifier two is a "race"..... the Semi Final is a "race".......the Main is a "race'. All this rule is stipulating is that you must finish any one of these races with the set of tires you started said race with......unless the tire is physically damaged and being "wore out" does not constitute physical damage. Some of you folks need to work on your reading comprehension.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by P2gee View Post
......• All races must be completed on the same tires used to start each race (qualifying and finals). Tire changes are not permitted except when a wheel and/or tire are determined by the race director or a ROAR official, to be damaged. Excessive tire wear does not constitute damage.....


I fail to see ANYTHING in this rule as written that requires running the same set of tires all weekend. Qualifier one is a "race"......qualifier two is a "race"..... the Semi Final is a "race".......the Main is a "race'. All this rule is stipulating is that you must finish any one of these races with the set of tires you started said race with......unless the tire is physically damaged and being "wore out" does not constitute physical damage. Some of you folks need to work on your reading comprehension.
I am guilty as charged, thanks for pointing that out

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:02 PM   #24
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The BUY...ILLEGAL...SELL...LEGAL(temporarely)...BUY AGAIN, never fails for ROAR, and is not limited to any particular class.... I guess it's best to wait until after ROAR sets the rules+three years to invest in a particular class....lol...
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P2gee View Post
......• All races must be completed on the same tires used to start each race (qualifying and finals). Tire changes are not permitted except when a wheel and/or tire are determined by the race director or a ROAR official, to be damaged. Excessive tire wear does not constitute damage.....


I fail to see ANYTHING in this rule as written that requires running the same set of tires all weekend. Qualifier one is a "race"......qualifier two is a "race"..... the Semi Final is a "race".......the Main is a "race'. All this rule is stipulating is that you must finish any one of these races with the set of tires you started said race with......unless the tire is physically damaged and being "wore out" does not constitute physical damage. Some of you folks need to work on your reading comprehension.
Actually... I dissagree. Qualifiers are not a race. Practice is not a race. Semi finals are not a race. There is only one race and thats the final.
I guess if you want to interpret the rule in that way and say you are "racing" the clock in qualifiers then yes your right. Just let me know how the clock can win when its a race.
Having said that .... I agree with what you are saying... the rule as stipulated in the quote can be interpreted in that way. So I concur.

I do still believe that these rules were rushed through and not thought through at all.

Not exactly a professional job done saying they are our "Sanctioning Body"

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Old 10-30-2013, 07:18 PM   #26
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there is no reason a gt car should go threw more than 1 set of tires in a hour race let alone 30 minutes and if it does you need to look at what you are doing i ran 6 events this year and used 2 sets and the replaced set was because of a broken rims

as for the motor rules i understand why they want to keep the speeds down to allow and bring in the new driver into the national fuel classes to GROW the sport they don't want to see it go the way of 1/10 where it was originally supposed to be a cheaper starter class to 1/8 open if you want the all out speed go run 1/10 scale or 1/8 besides a 7.7 lb car can do a lot of damage when it hits a turn marshall or blows off the end of a 200 foot back straight at 70+ mph

as for factory or factory only upgrade chassis parts that kind of sux i run a gtp and gtp2 for a reason because i can make my own replacement chassis pans i have been moving the weight around to make it work better besides using the dm1 bumpers and shocks to lower the ride and CG
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Last edited by azeroth; 10-30-2013 at 07:19 PM. Reason: grammer
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:39 PM   #27
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It wasn't clear to me whether the "one set per race" statement also applied only to the level 4/5 events where a spec tire is being used. If it does apply to spec tire only, i expect the one set rule will probably be a moot point, since I doubt ROAR will pick a 40 shore gumball tire anyway. They'll likely pick a shore that will be fairly long lasting.

Definitely an interesting set of rules, and it is ridiculous to accuse ROAR of not thinking about what they were doing. If nothing else, these rules definitely express a very conscious intent to shape the class in a certain way - a much more realistic looking car, with a more restricted performance envelope, and a tighter linkage to the original offroad buggy DNA.

Like any set of rules, the ultimate test is whether the dogs who race under them will eat the dog food. I know in the NE where I'm from, one of the biggest races this past year was the Roar Div 1 Regional, so these are the rules we'll be running under. I know my car will be illegal under these rules (homemade chassis without kickup and altered from original buggies dimensions, body, dish wheels) and I know other cars will also be. In my case it will be at least 5 months until I race GT again, so I'll kick back and see what shakes out between now and then, and see what my fellow dogs have expressed an appetite for...
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:48 PM   #28
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First let me say I believe we are all entitled to our own opinions and views and these are mine as a racer, hobbyist, inventor, Director of IGT8F and previous track and shop owner.

Second, IGT8F has always been open and available to offer help, support, advice, etc. To ROAR or any other organization willing to actually do something to benefit the GT8 class.
(Btw, No request or response was ever submitted by anyone, just calls of opinions and argument with no purposed solution)

A comment was made about this finally putting GT8 on a National level, my question is where have you been last few years?
There are numerous races across the country that have been to a National level. All with their own set of rules that everyone for the most part agree with and countinue to follow.

Just a few key points that stick out in my mind..

The motor rule 6mm restrictor, no mods and only .21 or. 25-. 28 with pull start.
What motors are you guys testing? The most popular motor being ran in GT8 today is the NovaRossi .25 Roma. Where does this leave Murnan, Maxy, Clockwork and any other motor guru? Out of the game entirely? How is this helping?

6mm restrictor have you tested this?? Who owns a 6mm restrictor now or has one in their pitbox?? I might try to understand your logic on your "to slow things down strategy" for newbies to grow the class. Please, I have a ton of marketing experience and it doesn't take a genius to know that Speed&Sex=SELLS!!
This is why Traxxas the GIANT SUCCESS they are advertises their cars top speed on the box!!! It attracts newbies!!

I can go on and about every rule, but I won't. Its pointless its their rules their organization I respect that. You choose to follow and obey or don't go.

Overall (IMO) the rules posted seem extremely rushed and not researched or tested to what has been happening in the GT8 class the last few years.

IGT8F is founded by actual racers. Everything IGT8F has created has a positive purpose to help the entire RC industry. Our main focus is to promote the Nitro On Road classes.

Our mission statement is "to promote the On Road race scene through the GT8 class"

In closing,
ROAR rules are just that Roar rules.
Just don't attend Roar events and don't pay for a Roar membership. Many of you fail to understand you the racer control Roar or any other organization.

IGT8F is growing getting more registered users daily and working directly with various manufacturers, tracks and shop owners to actual improve growth, create more races and continuing to support what we have established and been doing for the last 4 years. We have no intention of slowing down.

If you don't see the power YOU possess, they have already won.

Heres my contact email again guys
[email protected]
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:53 PM   #29
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Roar will prob change rules as they get pushback from racers
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:07 PM   #30
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danmmm!!! i never heard explanation about gt cars like that thanks so much teacher
Quote:
Originally Posted by afm View Post
The problem with body definition seems to be that ROAR doesn´t know what the origins of the class wanted to replicate.
This class name GT come from the 1:1 Grand Touring (from the Italian word Gran Turismo) racing is the most common form of sports car racing, and is found all over the world, in both international and national series. Historically, Grand Touring cars had to be in series production, but in 1976 the class was split into production based Group 4 Grand Touring Cars and Group 5 Special Production Cars which were essentially pure-bred racing cars with production-look-alike bodies.
GT racing gradually fell into abeyance in Europe in the 1980s and 1990s, with silhouette cars continuing to race in IMSA races in the USA. When GT racing revived after the collapse of the World Sports Car Championship at the end of 1992, the lead in defining rules was taken by the ACO.

Under the ACO rules, Grand Touring cars are divided into two categories, Grand Touring 1 (GT1, formerly GTS) and Grand Touring 2 (GT2, formerly GT). As the name of the class implies, the exterior of the car closely resembles that of the production version, while the internal fittings may differ greatly. GT2 cars are very similar to the FIA GT2 classification, and are 'pure' GT cars; that is production exotic cars with relatively few internal modifications for racing. The Porsche 911 is currently the most popular car in the GT2 class. 2009 will be the last run of the GT1 class as a result of budgeting issues. GT1 teams are currently enlisting to run their cars in the GT2 class next year.

FIA divides GT cars into four categories called GT1 (formerly GT), GT2 (formerly N-GT), GT3 (recently introduced) and GT4. The GT1 and GT2 divisions are very close to the ACO rules outlined above, and again some crossover racing does occur, particularly in the GT2 class. The GT3 class is relatively new and was introduced for 2006. These cars are closer to standard form than in GT2, and in most cases modifications are restricted to those found in one-make cups. GT4 is another new category for non-professional Damnnn!! I never heard explanation about gt cars like that thanks teacherdrivers in production-based cars with very few racing modifications - for example, no aerodynamic aids or body modifications are permitted.

Grand-Am has only one class for Grand Touring cars which allows production-based GT racers at a spec somewhere between FIA GT2 and GT3 in terms of modification (e.g. the Porsche 911 GT3 Cup) to compete with purpose-built tube-frame "silhouette" machines reminiscent of the former IMSA GTO/GTU classes.

Technology Escalation and Control in FIA GT RacingWhile GT cars are at least in theory based on road going versions, some GT1 cars in the mid to late 1990s were effectively purpose-built sports-prototypes which spawned exotic production cars with homologation production limits of 25 cars (for small manufacturers, such as Saleen) or 100 cars (for major manufacturers like DaimlerChrysler). The original form of GT1 racing was dropped in 1998 because of rising costs. The GT1 class was for the purebred supercars and purpose-built race cars, such as the McLaren F1 GTR, Ferrari F40, Porsche 911 GT1, Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR, Toyota GT-One and Nissan R390 - while the first two were a derivatives of roadgoing sports cars, the German and Japanese contenders were pure-bred racing cars - virtually sports prototypes. Rising costs coupled with declining entries led to the death of this class, and it was replaced by what was then GT2 (FIA, which evolved into the current GT1) and Le Mans Prototype (LMP, by the ACO).

So after a Little history review, our body rules for the South American Pacific Cup is the following and makes more sense.
4. - Body:Any closed body type " Gran Turismo - GT" , commercially available in the market and that fits the definition of vehicles in GT racing categories in real life : ".... a car that has no more than one door at each side and at least two seats situated on either side of the longitudinal center line of the vehicle, capable of being used perfectly legal on the road and then adapted to competition in circuits or closed routes " (should look like a real life car that could be driven on the street with a passenger) .

Regards
AFM
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