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Old 06-14-2004, 06:01 PM   #12856
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Quote:
Originally posted by vadn1
If you get a chance grab an issue of Xtreme RC car magazine, this month as a set up by Robbie Collins on the Mugen MTX-3. He recommends going with a B block and tells under what circumstances to change to the A or C. Grab one issue, it helps in other areas of the car also. Great to have in the Tool box when out at the track working on setup...
Hey vadn1, can you quickly summarise Robbies advice on the rear blocks?

Thanks!
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Old 06-14-2004, 06:41 PM   #12857
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From the mugen website by Robbie Collins....


Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bandeira wrote:
There were some doubts in other sites emerging when trying to figure out what would be the difference between the ackermans, no one could say exactly which one would give me less steering when entering the turn.

Robbies answer....

About the rear blocks, It was found out what each block would do to the roll center, but when trying to figure out it's real effects on the car some great websites came into a big disagree...
The (A) front steering akerman gives you more steering (B) less (C) even less (A) more steering in the midle of the corner. Tey using (B) more neutral setup.

The three different rear blocks work as followed (A) having the lowest roll center is good for high bite tracks (B) medium bite tracks and (C) having the hieghest roll center is good for low bite tracks. The more your car rolls the more bite you will have, the down fall of this would be the lazzy re-action from right to left.
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Old 06-14-2004, 06:41 PM   #12858
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Hey vadn1, can you quickly summarise Robbies advice on the rear blocks?
block B works on most situationg, also try les toe, 0.5 - 1.0 ... eh

i didnt work for me..
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Old 06-14-2004, 06:44 PM   #12859
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Quote:
Originally posted by vadn1
From the mugen website by Robbie Collins....


Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bandeira wrote:
There were some doubts in other sites emerging when trying to figure out what would be the difference between the ackermans, no one could say exactly which one would give me less steering when entering the turn.

Robbies answer....

About the rear blocks, It was found out what each block would do to the roll center, but when trying to figure out it's real effects on the car some great websites came into a big disagree...
The (A) front steering akerman gives you more steering (B) less (C) even less (A) more steering in the midle of the corner. Tey using (B) more neutral setup.

The three different rear blocks work as followed (A) having the lowest roll center is good for high bite tracks (B) medium bite tracks and (C) having the hieghest roll center is good for low bite tracks. The more your car rolls the more bite you will have, the down fall of this would be the lazzy re-action from right to left.
Since nothing really concise did come around here i rctech I went to look with the pro's lol
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:13 PM   #12860
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Quote:
Originally posted by vadn1
The three different rear blocks work as followed (A) having the lowest roll center is good for high bite tracks (B) medium bite tracks and (C) having the hieghest roll center is good for low bite tracks. The more your car rolls the more bite you will have, the down fall of this would be the lazzy re-action from right to left.
Thanks for the reply!! The wierd thing is that this advice is contrary to the physics in the situation, ie. Robbie is actually wrong that the C block gives greater roll. Anyway he is the pro and I sure aint!
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:16 PM   #12861
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Default Engine for MTX-3 (Std or SG shaft)

Can you use a Standard Crank engine on the MTX-3? Just wondering, I have 3 Novarossi RS12 with Standard Cranks.
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:21 PM   #12862
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
Thanks for the reply!! The wierd thing is that this advice is contrary to the physics in the situation, ie. Robbie is actually wrong that the C block gives greater roll. Anyway he is the pro and I sure aint!
I don't think in the reply that vadn1 posted mentioned or implied Robbie referring the C block giving the most roll. He just mentioned that C was having the highest roll center...

Perhaps a follow up question to Robbie would be which block gives the most roll to the car...
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:33 PM   #12863
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
I don't think in the reply that vadn1 posted mentioned or implied Robbie referring the C block giving the most roll. He just mentioned that C was having the highest roll center...

Perhaps a follow up question to Robbie would be which block gives the most roll to the car...
He does imply it.............

Quote:
C) having the hieghest roll center is good for low bite tracks
implys that you use a high roll centre for low bite. He then goes on to say..............

Quote:
The more your car rolls the more bite you will have, the down fall of this would be the lazzy re-action from right to left
The implication is that in low bite situations you need more bite from the suspension, and you can therefore imply you need more roll as Robbie has stated in the last part. Therefore he is in a round about way saying they the C block with a high roll centre gives less roll. I am of course saying 1 + 1 = 2 without being given the 2 here.....................
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:45 PM   #12864
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
Therefore he is in a round about way saying they the C block with a high roll centre gives less roll.
I think you were trying to say Robbie thinks "C block with a high roll centre gives MORE roll"... Which is against the common understanding that higher RC = less roll.

Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
I am of course saying 1 + 1 = 2 without being given the 2 here.....................
I hear you. But I'm trying to give Robbie the benefit of the doubt. Not going to jump the gun and say anything.
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:52 PM   #12865
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Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
I think you were trying to say Robbie thinks "C block with a high roll centre gives MORE roll"... Which is against the common understanding that higher RC = less roll.



I hear you. But I'm trying to give Robbie the benefit of the doubt. Not going to jump the gun and say anything.
Yep agree me too. I have never tested the MTX3 which is why I am so interested. My testing on my R40 and with a Factory team XRAY has always yielded results consistent with my theory, which is inconsistent with the MTX3 common advice. I think it may be a case that the MTX3 just works well with the A block, irrespective of the roll centre position.
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Old 06-14-2004, 09:04 PM   #12866
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Quote:
I think you were trying to say Robbie thinks "C block with a high roll centre gives MORE roll"... Which is against the common understanding that higher RC = less roll.

high roll center = less roll IF:

both roll centers are raised,

however in the case of the mugen, the front always stays the same and by raising the rear, you are inclining the roll axis towards the front. As a RESULT you will get more roll as the weight is transfered towards the front as in the case of coming into a turn and mid turn...

correct me if I am wrong, but this is how i understand this.. from trying to set up my 710 in the past where in order to gain more steering I had to lower the front roll center and raise the rear; this made the car roll a little more and allowed for more weight transfer towards the front.
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Old 06-14-2004, 09:13 PM   #12867
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Quote:
What effect if any will swapping out the side forward 24T pully with the side rear 19T pully have. ...?
Your question gets me thinking you may not understand the concept of altering the drive-ratio of the front vs. rear......Please see posts a few pages back......

Bivens - 06-04-2004 at 02:48 PM - Page 423 and related posts on previous pages......

(the quick way to surf to ANY specific page is to click on the "page-marker" numbers on any page within the thread and then alter the last digits of the URL in your address window to steer you to the page you want to see.......anybody know of a better way to do that?....it'll save a lot of time if you know where you want to read)
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Old 06-14-2004, 09:25 PM   #12868
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Quote:
This is the proper tool. B0513.
will that work with the 0.8m gears???
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Old 06-14-2004, 09:29 PM   #12869
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Default Re: Engine for MTX-3 (Std or SG shaft)

Quote:
Originally posted by no4hitter
Can you use a Standard Crank engine on the MTX-3? Just wondering, I have 3 Novarossi RS12 with Standard Cranks.
You will need an SG shaft. You may want to try and pick up a cranshaft. They are available on Ebay.

Thanks
www.twistertires.com
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Old 06-14-2004, 09:34 PM   #12870
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Quote:
Originally posted by Profoxcg
will that work with the 0.8m gears???
It will work on ANY clutch gearing and on ANY cars that has the Centax clutch.
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