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Old 05-13-2003, 11:37 PM   #3871
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Default pipe questions

hi manticore, is a shorter pipe length provides more top end ? if so, can we trim down the mainfold to adjust the pipe length ? thanks
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Old 05-14-2003, 01:53 AM   #3872
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Default Re: pipe questions

Quote:
Originally posted by speedy100
hi manticore, is a shorter pipe length provides more top end ? if so, can we trim down the mainfold to adjust the pipe length ? thanks
that's the way how y ou trim the pipe length. if you want to extend the pipe length, you might want to get short alloy tube between the header and pipe as spacer.

you cannot do much with inline (one piece pipe) as they are fixed length.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:02 AM   #3873
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Default Re: Rear Roll Center

Quote:
Originally posted by Rayj
I'm very accustomed to setting up electric touring cars, and something about the MTX-3 that I don't get. Most electric cars have a lower rear roll center. With the stock set-up for the mtx-3 the car is still loose. Why is the rear inside camber link SO REALLY low on the car. The rear of this thing does need to roll more. I hate having to stiffen the front end to compensate for the high roll center in the rear. I just don't wanna give up my steering and make this thing push. Can anybody explain why the roll centers are so high on the rear of these gas cars? Is it the high speed corners?

On another note. If you ever need to replace the front belt on the MTX-3. TRY Mugen part number D0240. It's a 6mm belt for the MRX. It fits perfectly.
As I understand it, low RC allows the chassis to roll easier while a high RC does just the opposite. The steeply angled and short upper link on the rear of the MTX -3 reduces roll to combat the slightly Higher CG nature of nitro cars. Electric cars usually utilize longer and lower parallel upper links to induce roll because of the very low CG of these cars. On most nitro cars, only the rear utilizes the higher RC because most of the weight is situated at the rear of the car.

The NTC3 is something else though. You'll have to ask Mr. Lett about that one.
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Last edited by FREAKAH; 05-14-2003 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:37 AM   #3874
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Default Thanks Freakah

Thanks for the response. What you say is perfectly correct. I should have thought about it just a little more. I'd be very interested in seeing a setup that you use on a medium grip asphalt track with a 145 foot straight and the normal chicanes and switchbacks.

I run alot of rubber tires and haven't tried foam just yet. I really want to dial the front to rear setup first before I switch to even higher traction foams. Once I get the front and rear of the car to work together I'll switch to foams.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:48 AM   #3875
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Check out my rubber set-up a couple of pages back. I'm using a longer rear link(inner hole) with excellent results. I think with foams you need to go with the shorter stock length link.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:49 AM   #3876
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Default Re: Thanks Freakah

Quote:
Originally posted by Rayj
I run alot of rubber tires and haven't tried foam just yet. I really want to dial the front to rear setup first before I switch to even higher traction foams. Once I get the front and rear of the car to work together I'll switch to foams.
That's the main reason of your looseness problems. This car was designed with foams not rubber.

The way of working the suspension scheme is designed for the higher traction and grip that foams provide. Believe to all of us that run this car with foams and do the switch to foams.

You don't have the voodo of "¿What kind of: Rim, Insert and Rubber" to run? Is straightforward and you only need to worry of: "¿What hardness need to run?".
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:57 AM   #3877
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Default Thanks Corse-R

I'm sure your correct. Tires are the number one tuning factor. I guess I'm trying get this car to do something it cannot do with rubber tires. Any set-ups that you use would be greatly appreciated corse-r!! I have sevral sets of foams that I will start using.
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Old 05-14-2003, 03:59 AM   #3878
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Default THE MTX-3 IS AN EXCELLENT RUBBER CAR!!

Again, I'm VERY competetive with the "A" main foam equipped cars on my local track. This could be because of track size, design, surface, etc.. . Now I have a "foam" car so I can really find out.

All you have to do is look and find a set-up for your needs.
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:04 AM   #3879
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Mugen knew what they were doing when they included a front diff case and a longer rear camber link option.
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:17 AM   #3880
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Default Re: Thanks Corse-R

Quote:
Originally posted by Rayj
I'm sure your correct. Tires are the number one tuning factor. I guess I'm trying get this car to do something it cannot do with rubber tires. Any set-ups that you use would be greatly appreciated corse-r!! I have sevral sets of foams that I will start using.
My main setup is basically the standard setup that goes on the kit but with this modifications (stock setup applies to whose isn't mentioned here):

Front:
- Track width: 196mm (great if you go on twisty tracks go up to 198 or 199 if you can).
- Ride height: 4.5mm
- Camber: 2º
- Caster: 3mm
- Toe: 0.5º out at each wheel.
- Uptravel: 1mm (car has 1mm of uptravel when is at track).
- Anti roll bar: Point at 1:00 in a clock.
- Steering ackerman: B

Rear:
- Track width: 196mm
- Ride height: 5mm
- Camber: 3.5º
- Toe: 2º at each wheel.
- Uptravel: 2mm.
- Anti roll bar: Stock (black) tightened 7mm.
- Upper arm position (upright shims): 1mm.

Tyres: Enneti foams 40shore at Front and Rear, trued at 63mm, beware with the ride height or you start to rub your chassis very soon.
Motor: Novarossi S3 with Novarossi 52604 'In-Line' pipe, stinger drilled at 5.1mm.
Gearing: 17/21 with 47/43 spurs (uhm.... 2nd gear is a little short for my track, but love to hear that wicked sound down the backstraight and is 'enough quick'). Engine never went past 120ºC.
Yellow brake pads.
Mugen 4mm chasis.
30000wt oil in rear diff.
Protoform stratus and stock wing without sidedams (hummm, people thinks that make it a little more twitchy to drive but real fun to drive). Put your body as low as you can but without interfering with the suspension travel.
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:28 AM   #3881
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Default Thanks Corse-R

I'll give it a try. Whoooaaa....I'm going to be late for work. Thanks for all your guys help!!
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:22 AM   #3882
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Default

Manticore, where did you get the Kawahara sway bar from? I looked on there web page and didn't see it. My knowledge of importers is zip because I can't get on-line much. Also does the stock brace work with the bar or do I have to get a cool brace like yours? Thanks.

Rayj, I'm at work so I don't have to worry about being late.
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Old 05-14-2003, 02:16 PM   #3883
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Corse-R
is that what you mean droop (up travel)


thanks fro the imfo
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Old 05-14-2003, 02:48 PM   #3884
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Quote:
Originally posted by dg8one
Corse-R
is that what you mean droop (up travel)
thanks fro the imfo
Nope, droop is another adjustment. Uptravel is the 'rebound' on the official mugen setup sheet. Don't mix with the Upstop adjustment.

Found that this car is happy with droop adjustments that other cars will suffer so much. Normally adjust my Droop at 1 at the front and 6 or 7 on the rear (almost the same if not the same as stock setup). Measured with a Losi droop gauge (will post the same numbers measured with a Hudy device when I get access to one).

As foam tyres go lower on size you need to compensate this adjusting the droop (downstop) and the shock collars (ride height), but the third adjustment you need to change is the camber. If you crank your shock collars you're removing in fact camber and the wheels get 'coning' to the outside (specially on the rear tyres), removing grip. This is very common to see on the MTX3 thanks to their very short upper link of the suspension.

Many think that putting a lot of camber and cone the wheels is in fact 'good' (I say BAAAAAD). When you get your rear tyres with a lot of coning you are adding too rear toe-in to the rear wheels and makes the car twitchy. You need to wear the foams straight (or almost straight).
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:46 PM   #3885
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Corse-R
Nope, droop is another adjustment. Uptravel is the 'rebound' on the official mugen setup sheet. Don't mix with the Upstop adjustment.

Found that this car is happy with droop adjustments that other cars will suffer so much. Normally adjust my Droop at 1 at the front and 6 or 7 on the rear (almost the same if not the same as stock setup). Measured with a Losi droop gauge (will post the same numbers measured with a Hudy device when I get access to one).

As foam tyres go lower on size you need to compensate this adjusting the droop (downstop) and the shock collars (ride height), but the third adjustment you need to change is the camber. If you crank your shock collars you're removing in fact camber and the wheels get 'coning' to the outside (specially on the rear tyres), removing grip. This is very common to see on the MTX3 thanks to their very short upper link of the suspension.

Many think that putting a lot of camber and cone the wheels is in fact 'good' (I say BAAAAAD). When you get your rear tyres with a lot of coning you are adding too rear toe-in to the rear wheels and makes the car twitchy. You need to wear the foams straight (or almost straight).
Corse-R - Dude, Awesome! I was going to set droop today ( haden't touched as of yet ) and the only droop gauge I have anymore is the Losi one. Saves me from doing it the old fashoned way, or heading down to the LHS to spend even more cash.

As far as coning goes, I remember an interview with i think Joel Johnson that says to not let the tires cone, or it will ''make the car do strange things''
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