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Old 09-06-2005, 09:12 AM   #15886
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Originally Posted by OZDC
Of course you can.

Try these, look under products for ride height gauges

Dudy

DC

you are still in business ?!?!? thought you filled chapter 11 long time ago.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:12 AM   #15887
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you are still in business ?!?!? thought you filled chapter 11 long time ago.
Hahaha....... Mr. Dudy got IPO
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:22 AM   #15888
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Hahaha....... Mr. Dudy got IPO
not a penny stock i am sure. he need all the pennies he has got.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:28 AM   #15889
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Is this true :

Steering A rack : Most aggressive steering, hook feeling, suitable for technical track
Steering B rack : neutral -- between A and C
Steering C rack : Smoothest feeling, doesn't hook, suitable for on power sweeper like corners in wide open track.

Rear A block : More on-throttle grip, Less grip under braking, More body roll, Use under low traction conditions to get more steering, Increases overall traction, reduces rear tire wear,

Rear B block : neutral -- between A and C

Rear C block : Less on-throttle steering, Car is more responsive, Use in high grip conditions to avoid traction rolling, Use on tracks with quick direction changes (chicanes), more side bite only, less body roll, preferably for track with lots of S turns.




Last edited by asw7576; 09-06-2005 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 09-06-2005, 12:19 PM   #15890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
Is this true :

Steering A rack : Most aggressive steering, hook feeling, suitable for technical track
Steering B rack : neutral -- between A and C
Steering C rack : Smoothest feeling, doesn't hook, suitable for on power sweeper like corners in wide open track.

Rear A block : More on-throttle grip, Less grip under braking, More body roll, Use under low traction conditions to get more steering, Increases overall traction, reduces rear tire wear,

Rear B block : neutral -- between A and C

Rear C block : Less on-throttle steering, Car is more responsive, Use in high grip conditions to avoid traction rolling, Use on tracks with quick direction changes (chicanes), more side bite only, less body roll, preferably for track with lots of S turns.



Not entirely!

I use the C steering ackerman for a more agressive steering feel.
I run the A rear blocks to make the car turn more all over.
Now the links you posted about the roll centers is corect.
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Old 09-06-2005, 03:47 PM   #15891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
Rear A block : More on-throttle grip, Less grip under braking, More body roll, Use under low traction conditions to get more steering, Increases overall traction, reduces rear tire wear,

Rear B block : neutral -- between A and C

Rear C block : Less on-throttle steering, Car is more responsive, Use in high grip conditions to avoid traction rolling, Use on tracks with quick direction changes (chicanes), more side bite only, less body roll, preferably for track with lots of S turns.
i thought that the 'c' rear block is for slippery tracks?
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Old 09-06-2005, 05:36 PM   #15892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moot
i thought that the 'c' rear block is for slippery tracks?
You are correct!
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Old 09-06-2005, 11:53 PM   #15893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slotmachine
You are correct!
Slot, you are confusing me because what you said is contradict with Glenn Cauley

Here is Glenn's point of view :

C block is 6mm above main chassis, so theoritically higher RC or closer to CG : means less roll, suitable for high grip circuit.

A block is 4mm above main chassis, so lower RC or further away from CG : means more roll, suitable for less grip circuit.
Attached Thumbnails
Mugen MTX-3-rearblock.jpg   Mugen MTX-3-b-rearblock.jpg   Mugen MTX-3-c-rearblock.jpg   Mugen MTX-3-front-block.jpg  
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Old 09-07-2005, 06:38 AM   #15894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
Slot, you are confusing me because what you said is contradict with Glenn Cauley

Here is Glenn's point of view :

C block is 6mm above main chassis, so theoritically higher RC or closer to CG : means less roll, suitable for high grip circuit.

A block is 4mm above main chassis, so lower RC or further away from CG : means more roll, suitable for less grip circuit.

For one thing you drive a Mugen not a Serpent. Everything I have ever tried that Serpent says has been backwards!!!! All I know is I have had the MTX 3 for 4 years, and when I want less rear traction I run the A block, when I want more traction I put C in. It has been the same for all the guys I have talked to.

I would say put each one in and try it out, that is how I learn what a car does.

Yes a higher rollcenter gives the car less roll, but when you are on a sticky track you want the car to roll a little so the car reacts a bit slower. When the car reacts fast on a high grip track, you end up Throwing the weight instead of transfering the weight slowly and progressively.Try to controll roll with the Swaybars.

Last year I went to the Nats in Ohio, I was traction rolling. I asked Josh C. what to do and he said lighten up on the springs and oil to slow the reaction down. It worked great!
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Old 09-07-2005, 08:54 AM   #15895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slotmachine



For one thing you drive a Mugen not a Serpent. Everything I have ever tried that Serpent says has been backwards!!!! All I know is I have had the MTX 3 for 4 years, and when I want less rear traction I run the A block, when I want more traction I put C in. It has been the same for all the guys I have talked to.

I would say put each one in and try it out, that is how I learn what a car does.

Yes a higher rollcenter gives the car less roll, but when you are on a sticky track you want the car to roll a little so the car reacts a bit slower. When the car reacts fast on a high grip track, you end up Throwing the weight instead of transfering the weight slowly and progressively.Try to controll roll with the Swaybars.

Last year I went to the Nats in Ohio, I was traction rolling. I asked Josh C. what to do and he said lighten up on the springs and oil to slow the reaction down. It worked great!
Ai Ai Sir !! Yess Sir, I'm a Mugen Pilot !!!

Okay, I'll change from B to C block to get less body roll.
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Old 09-07-2005, 09:20 AM   #15896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
Ai Ai Sir !! Yess Sir, I'm a Mugen Pilot !!!

Okay, I'll change from B to C block to get less body roll.
Lower arm position

The MTX3 has three rear lower arm positions which allow us to modify the height of the lower arm with respect to the chassis, thus changing Roll Center and Camber variation of rear wheels along the suspension travel.

Piece “A” places the lower arms at (4mm) from chassis
Piece “B” places the lower arms at (5mm) from chassis
Piece “C” places the lower arms at (6mm) from chassis

Some time ago I asked several Japanese official Mugen drivers about the use of those blocks, and they told me that in general they use “A” blocks on high grip tracks, and for medium to low grip tracks they use “B” or “C” blocks. They also commented that, even though they don’t do it, some drivers will mix parts like “A” with “B” or “B” with “C” to dial more or less anti squat.

Now in relation to the Roll Center, you must also consider the position and angle of the upper Camber link

The following generalizations apply in most cases.
· An upper link that is parallel to the lower A-arm will make the Roll Center sit very low when the car is at normal ride height, hence the initial body roll when entering a corner will be big.
· An upper link that is angled down will make the Roll Center sit up higher, making the initial roll moment smaller, which makes that particular end of the car feel very aggressive entering the corner.
· A very long upper link will make that the roll moment stays more or less the same size when the chassis leans over; and the chassis will roll very deeply into the suspension travel. If a lot of camber is not used, this can make the tires slide because of excessive positive camber.
· A short upper link will make that the roll moment becomes a lot smaller when the chassis leans; the chassis won't roll very far.

In general, you could say that:
......The angle of the upper link relative to the A-arm determines where the roll center is with the chassis in its neutral position
.......The length of the upper link determines how much does the height of the Roll Center changes as the chassis rolls.
........A short, angled down link will locate the Roll Center very high, and it will stay high as the chassis rolls. So the chassis will roll very little.
........A long, angled down link will reduce the car's tendency to roll initially, but as the chassis rolls it won't make much of a difference anymore.
........A long, parallel link will locate the Roll Center very low, and it will stay very low as the car corners. Hence, the car (well at least that end of the car) will roll a lot.
........A short, parallel link will make the car roll a lot at first, but as it rolls, the tendency will diminish. So it will roll very fast at first, but it will stop quickly.

In terms of car handling, this means that:
........When the link is angled down (higher Roll Center) gives the most grip initially, when turning in, or exiting the corner,.
.........When the link is angled up (lower Roll Center) gives the most grip in the middle of the corner.
..........If you'd like more aggressive turn-in, and more low-speed steering, set the rear upper link at less of an angle.

What's the best, a high Roll Center or a low one?[list]
It all depends on the rest of the car and the track. One thing is for sure:
..........On a bumpy track, the Roll Center is better placed a little higher; it will prevent the car from rolling from side to side a lot as it takes the bumps, and it will also make it possible to use softer springs which allow the tires to stay in contact with the bumpy track.
..........On smooth tracks, you can use a very low Roll Center, combined with stiff springs, to increase the car's responsiveness.


AFM
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Old 09-07-2005, 09:34 AM   #15897
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Quote:
Some time ago I asked several Japanese official Mugen drivers about the use of those blocks, and they told me that in general they use “A” blocks on high grip tracks, and for medium to low grip tracks they use “B” or “C” blocks. They also commented that, even though they don’t do it, some drivers will mix parts like “A” with “B” or “B” with “C” to dial more or less anti squat.
Yes! This is all you need to know abot A,B and C blocks

If you want more turn in and more steering coming off the corner (under power) then put shims under the top arm.

The easiest way to explain it is when you have the top arm higher you increase the amount of camber gain under compression, when you excellerate weight is transfered to the rear compressing the springs adding camber. When this happens, your tires lean in and you are now rolling on the inside edges of the tires LESS GRIP
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Old 09-07-2005, 09:59 AM   #15898
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Thanks afm and slot You're the best.

In my home track, the grip level is not constant. During race day the grip level increase gradually after each group final. During practice day the grip level is normal. My best setup during practice days is not ideal setup during race day. What i want is less body roll ( traction roll problem ) on race day. So I try C block this weekend. I am already using softer spring and oil weight though.
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Old 09-07-2005, 10:13 AM   #15899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw7576
Thanks afm and slot You're the best.

In my home track, the grip level is not constant. During race day the grip level increase gradually after each group final. During practice day the grip level is normal. My best setup during practice days is not ideal setup during race day. What i want is less body roll ( traction roll problem ) on race day. So I try C block this weekend. I am already using softer spring and oil weight though.
Let us know how it goes!
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Old 09-07-2005, 08:48 PM   #15900
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Mr SlotMachine

Just wondering what is the reason to use the stock BLACK clutch instead of the option GREY / RED?? I thought the optional Gray/Red clutch will provide less "slip"?
What is the ideal spring that come with the clutch set, Silver or Gold.

Thanks.
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