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Old 05-26-2013, 07:20 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by TerribleTy View Post
Your wisdom is always appreciated. I'm trying to look at the most basic rules of setup as you guys have already gone into other aspects. Its stated that moving the shocks around didnt help so I'm trying to go a different route. Your anti squat won't do squat if your dampening or spring is too soft or you have too much droop. A .28 in a GT is going to have loads of bottom end and stabing it down will transfer the weight very rapidly to the rear. Standing the shocks up makes the suspension softer, its basic geometry. So going softer is going to give you the same result if not worse. Parking lots are full of elevation changes rocks and often cracks which can drive these cars wild unless you compensate for them.
Anti squat is mechanical leverage, shock position,droop or spring tension will not effect how it works. If you are accelerating anti squat stiffens up the rear so you can actually run a softer rear setup with increased anti squat. Makes no difference if you have a .19 or a .28. Pro squat or less anti squat is what i think you are thinking about. In that case yes a higher powered engine would make the rear sag under acceleration and spring tension and damping will make a difference. This is why the more anti squat you run the more on power steering you get.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:37 AM   #32
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Sounds like it might be time to start the popcorn.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:46 AM   #33
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Just an FYI, it's pretty much impossible to get 100% anti-squat with an H arm suspension. It would require huge rake angles to get it. The few degrees of rake found on the back of many onroad cars provides at most 10% anti-squat. So the rear will squat about 10% less than it would without it but it will still squat on acceleration.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:14 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Just an FYI, it's pretty much impossible to get 100% anti-squat with an H arm suspension. It would require huge rake angles to get it. The few degrees of rake found on the back of many onroad cars provides at most 10% anti-squat. So the rear will squat about 10% less than it would without it but it will still squat on acceleration.
True, but 10% is 10% !! Keep in mind that these are not on road cars but converted off road chassis.

How much AS can you adjust on an open car?
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #35
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True, but 10% is 10% !! Keep in mind that these are not on road cars but converted off road chassis.

How much AS can you adjust on an open car?
Many have none. Some will allow you to put a couple degrees in it. Shepherd comes with a couple degrees but most of us mix and match the pin mounts to take it out.

Onraod/offroad doesn't matter, they are both H arm suspensions with the same advantages and limitations. To get to 100% with it, you would need something like 20 or 30 degrees of rake which would cause all sorts of other problems. If you want 100% (or even more) anti-squat, you need a 4 link live axle rear. Dirt oval cars often actually lift the rear under acceleration.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:45 AM   #36
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Another option to try is less caster with the 10 degree caster blocks. And a simple setup change is toflatten the front lower hinge pin. Use the lowest block in front and the highest in te rear block of the front hinge pin.
Hay Julius do you know what number blocks to use where? they are numbered from 0 to 6.
I'm guessing 6. if you know it will save me pulling the rear apart to have a look. .
Thanks hope you can help.
Regards Greg
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:57 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Many have none. Some will allow you to put a couple degrees in it. Shepherd comes with a couple degrees but most of us mix and match the pin mounts to take it out.

Onraod/offroad doesn't matter, they are both H arm suspensions with the same advantages and limitations. To get to 100% with it, you would need something like 20 or 30 degrees of rake which would cause all sorts of other problems. If you want 100% (or even more) anti-squat, you need a 4 link live axle rear. Dirt oval cars often actually lift the rear under acceleration.
I would imagine with Foam tires and a rear spool AS isnt needed
I owned a 8sec linked outlaw car about two decades ago (how time flies) and that was the main advantage of going from a 2 link to a 4link setup where you could actually controll your IC. neat stuff when you really get into it!

I was comparing a dedicated onroad design to offroad because we can adjust from-1 to +5* which makes a pretty significant difference. I have noticed more so in onroad that they start to get squirrley on entry with too much AS. Just like any adjustment its a give and take!
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:13 AM   #38
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Hay Julius do you know what number blocks to use where? they are numbered from 0 to 6.
I'm guessing 6. if you know it will save me pulling the rear apart to have a look. .
Thanks hope you can help.
Regards Greg
For the front the no3 inserts are the most excentric and will give the most caster / kickup reduction.
Use the #3 in the down position in the frfr bracket and the #3 in th up positn in the fr rr bracket.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:43 PM   #39
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For the front the no3 inserts are the most excentric and will give the most caster / kickup reduction.
Use the #3 in the down position in the frfr bracket and the #3 in th up positn in the fr rr bracket.
thank you julius, your the best
cheers gt
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:35 PM   #40
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Gents I've resolved the issue. Well actually you guys fixed my issue and i just turned the wrenches.

It was 1 of two issues - most likely both.

I ruled out tires and rear shock angles as well as the droop settings. I've moved the shocks back to the factory set up specs and the ride height to 10 mm.

Here's what I did change that appears to have resolved uncontrollably loose condition.

1) the extreme RC mods pipe makes massive low end torque. I swapped the pipe to a Novarossi super strong EFRA pipe and I went to a whopping 20/24 pinion. LOL On cold tires the modded .28XZ still has enough grunt to break traction but when the tires get sticky it hooks and the torque has no problem turning the massive pinion. My straight away speed after shifting to 2nd was a crowd pleaser!!

2) I have eaten much crow in my life and will do it again here. After listening to all the advice here AND spending hours researching scale race car theory I added rear toe back to the car. On corner exit I believe the decrease in bottom end torque and the modest rear toe setting is keeping the rear end under the car and pulling forward.

My Kyosho GT2 with custom OFNA rear end has zero toe and it hooks up BUT I will concede that i was wrong by applying that set up to the shorter/much more powerful Serpent. The rear toe on this particular car appears necessary.

Can't thank you all enough. Parking lot racing with my new hot rod is fun again.
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:44 AM   #41
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[QUOTE=OldBourbon;12204655]

I went to a whopping 20/24 pinion.

OldBourbon that's great news
One question though man. Where did you get such massive pinions. The biggest that I have for second gear & I'd love bigger if I could get it but didn't think serpent made one, was 20T

Cheers Daz
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:11 AM   #42
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[QUOTE=Jazza;12205023]
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Originally Posted by OldBourbon View Post

I went to a whopping 20/24 pinion.

OldBourbon that's great news
One question though man. Where did you get such massive pinions. The biggest that I have for second gear & I'd love bigger if I could get it but didn't think serpent made one, was 20T

Cheers Daz
Hi, Jazza
I swapped out the Serpent clutch to a BUKU and used an HPI bell with HPI 20 for first gear and a 24 off a LOSI LST2 set. I made up the pinion quite a while ago and never used it. I'm pretty sure that's how I put it together.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:05 AM   #43
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Thanks heaps for the reply mate cheers.
I'll have to see what I can source


Hi, Jazza
I swapped out the Serpent clutch to a BUKU and used an HPI bell with HPI 20 for first gear and a 24 off a LOSI LST2 set. I made up the pinion quite a while ago and never used it. I'm pretty sure that's how I put it together.[/QUOTE]
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