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Old 08-24-2013, 11:07 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Taylorm View Post
Howard...www.avidrc.com has bearings at super
cheap prices..many are a dollar each... Quality
Is decent also...
I'm real interested to see if Pushrod pan works...
Matt
Thanks Matt! The prices are excellent, plus they have the flanged bearings (that would be preferable in this case) at the same price!
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Old 08-24-2013, 12:29 PM   #92
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Using Push Rods sounds like a good idea. How are you planning on securing the threaded rod? JB weld? I've never really examined a Push Rod closely. Are they hollow the entire length?

What would it take to turn down a 5/16 shaft or 3/8 shaft and then thread the turned down part? (Never really used a lathe much either)
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:02 PM   #93
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Default Push rod Axles

Howard (& all)


If the push rod is strong enough and the size is correct for bearings, there are many ways to attach the threaded part for adjustment. If possible, threading the ID of the rod for a short distance would be great. Not sure of the hardness of the p rod, perhaps the ID is not hardened or maybe the last 1/2" could be annealed...
If the pressure disk is pinned to the axle, assuming the P rod can be drilled, the threaded piece could be made long enough to be pinned also.
I would be concerned about using a 6-32 threaded part to adjust the diff. Associated was 5/16" and MRP used 10-32.

I'll be interested to follow your progress!!!
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:04 PM   #94
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Thanks Matt! The prices are excellent, plus they have the flanged bearings (that would be preferable in this case) at the same price!
FastEddy is good also.

http://www.teamfasteddy.com/
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:07 PM   #95
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Thanks for the observations, guys. All the pushrods I've seen are hollow for the full length (which I believe is necessary for oil distribution in most engines). Using threaded rod all the way through eliminates any need for forming or machining threads on the axle. The only machining necessary can be done with a Dremel cutoff wheel: remove the ball ends, and add a flat for the set screw on the collar that supports the inner diff plate.

The 6-32 rod was fine the last time I did this, but then again, it wasn't for a 1/8 scale car. Using the 3/8" axle permits use of a larger threaded rod, but then I can't use the 8x12mm bearings between wheel and axle (which I though was a really slick idea).
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:27 PM   #96
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Thanks for the observations, guys. All the pushrods I've seen are hollow for the full length (which I believe is necessary for oil distribution in most engines). Using threaded rod all the way through eliminates any need for forming or machining threads on the axle. The only machining necessary can be done with a Dremel cutoff wheel: remove the ball ends, and add a flat for the set screw on the collar that supports the inner diff plate.

The 6-32 rod was fine the last time I did this, but then again, it wasn't for a 1/8 scale car. Using the 3/8" axle permits use of a larger threaded rod, but then I can't use the 8x12mm bearings between wheel and axle (which I though was a really slick idea).
Howard,
I measured the p rods in my Mustang 302 engine and the OD seems to be just over 5/16 so 8mm may work fine. A little polishing may be necessary but should be no big deal. Since they are in the engine and hope to be used someday, I don't know what the ID is but looks like a good piece. I know what you are saying about the machining but I would rather have a short 10-32 stud than a long 6-32 inner shaft. I have some 5-40 SS threaded rod, if you could get 6-32 rod tougher than regular hardware store rod, I think it would be better. Let me know what the OD turns out to be and I may order a couple to play with.

What do you have planned for a clutch and gears??

A comment on the bearings: Why do you suppose Associated used 8 x 16 bearings? They are hard to find and usually expensive ($20.00/pair). Do you think the smaller bearings will have durability issues? At $1.00 apiece, I'll put up with 'em!

Ned
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:22 AM   #97
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Howard,
I measured the p rods in my Mustang 302 engine and the OD seems to be just over 5/16 so 8mm may work fine. A little polishing may be necessary but should be no big deal. Since they are in the engine and hope to be used someday, I don't know what the ID is but looks like a good piece. I know what you are saying about the machining but I would rather have a short 10-32 stud than a long 6-32 inner shaft. I have some 5-40 SS threaded rod, if you could get 6-32 rod tougher than regular hardware store rod, I think it would be better. Let me know what the OD turns out to be and I may order a couple to play with.

What do you have planned for a clutch and gears??

A comment on the bearings: Why do you suppose Associated used 8 x 16 bearings? They are hard to find and usually expensive ($20.00/pair). Do you think the smaller bearings will have durability issues? At $1.00 apiece, I'll put up with 'em!

Ned
Hi Ned,

Although it would be convenient to keep all of the axle bearings the same size, the 8x12 looks pretty wimpy. For the 5/16" axle, I was going to use 8x14mm as the main support bearings and use the 8x12's in the wheels.

This is just a guess, but I can see three scenarios that would have prompted Associated to use 8x16mm bearings:

1) They found a good deal on 8x16mm bearings;

2) They found a good deal on 8mm shafts for the axles, and the 8x16mm bearings cost the same as any other size (at the time);

2) They wanted to use cheap, non-precision-ground 5/16" shafts for the axles, and the 8x16mm bearings cost the same as any other size (at the time).

We may never know for sure!

I've been looking at the 32p clutch bells from the Associated 1/10 nitro trucks. The smallest is a 14 tooth. Kimbrough makes spurs of 66, 68, 70, and 72 teeth. The 66T/14T combo gives a ratio of 4.7 for tires down to the rim, and the other sizes will be useful for larger tires. I'm unsure if the bell size would be usable for a .21 engine (the bearings are the same as my RC300D), but I haven't given up on the idea of a smaller engine size.

Speaking of smaller (although this thread is for 1/8 scale), I still think the 1/10 scale pan car might be a good idea. Everything (except tires) is much cheaper, and there are actually plenty of 235mm body sizes available. McAllister still makes their Jaguar, Toyota, and Nissan GTP bodies, and Stormer carries the Parma Osella. (As a bonus, all of these bodies actually look like real race cars, as opposed to the excrement that is currently used for 1/8 scale.)
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:46 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
Thanks for the observations, guys. All the pushrods I've seen are hollow for the full length (which I believe is necessary for oil distribution in most engines). Using threaded rod all the way through eliminates any need for forming or machining threads on the axle. The only machining necessary can be done with a Dremel cutoff wheel: remove the ball ends, and add a flat for the set screw on the collar that supports the inner diff plate.

The 6-32 rod was fine the last time I did this, but then again, it wasn't for a 1/8 scale car. Using the 3/8" axle permits use of a larger threaded rod, but then I can't use the 8x12mm bearings between wheel and axle (which I though was a really slick idea).
Something that I have used has been a long allen screw. you can get them over 2" long, they are better steel than threaded rod, and with the hex drive, looks like they were made for the job. Many thread options as well.

Also, If needed, I have 3 or 4 new in the bag Serpent ball diff's from running 2wd drive suspension class back in the day.

Howard, I still have the car and all the parts as well ....... Some old school Green / White Bodies .......
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:06 AM   #99
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And we come full-circle in the discussion with the 1/10th scale pan car. I have seen the .07 engines for less than $30, but I don't know of an exhaust that will fit it (aside from the Kyosho for their 1/10th F1 car). I would love to have this engine in a 200mm car, so we can run the full range of HPI, Pegasus, Parma, McAllister, etc bodies. If you go with the .12 engine, I'm afraid that 235mm wide would be better. I still have my TRC/Composite Craft/RC10L 235mm nitro oval car in the basement. The pinions were funky, as was the clutch bell Had a brass strap with cork for brakes. Not great for road racing, but was fine for oval.
1/8th scale with .12 engines (or .15 or .18) sounds like fun as well.

Scott
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:43 AM   #100
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Something that I have used has been a long allen screw. you can get them over 2" long, they are better steel than threaded rod, and with the hex drive, looks like they were made for the job. Many thread options as well.

Also, If needed, I have 3 or 4 new in the bag Serpent ball diff's from running 2wd drive suspension class back in the day.

Howard, I still have the car and all the parts as well ....... Some old school Green / White Bodies .......
Thanks for the offer, Mark, but that kind of takes the fun out of designing it! I hung onto a Mugen 1/8 ball diff just in case, but I'd like to create something using currently available parts. Call it Engineeritus.

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And we come full-circle in the discussion with the 1/10th scale pan car. I have seen the .07 engines for less than $30, but I don't know of an exhaust that will fit it (aside from the Kyosho for their 1/10th F1 car). I would love to have this engine in a 200mm car, so we can run the full range of HPI, Pegasus, Parma, McAllister, etc bodies. If you go with the .12 engine, I'm afraid that 235mm wide would be better. I still have my TRC/Composite Craft/RC10L 235mm nitro oval car in the basement. The pinions were funky, as was the clutch bell Had a brass strap with cork for brakes. Not great for road racing, but was fine for oval.
1/8th scale with .12 engines (or .15 or .18) sounds like fun as well.

Scott
Scott, it seems like we share the same concern about realistic bodies. Are there any 1/8 scale bodies that look like real cars anymore?

Right now I'm kind of leaning toward a 4 pound(ish) 1/8 scale car using a .15 to .18 engine. The engines and can mufflers are pretty cheap, and it solves any concerns regarding clutches. The result would be usable on smaller tracks and parking lots, as well as the dedicated big tracks. But I just don't like the 1/8 bodies I've seen!

Edit: I just found a Kyosho Lola that looks pretty reasonable: not a caricature of a race car.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:20 AM   #101
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The thing I can't figure out is where all the molds would have gone that companies used to make the various bodies. Think of the amount of time spent to sculpt a mold compared to the time to vacu-form it. If it were mine, I think I would have stored them or sold them but I sure wouldn't have trashed them.
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Old 08-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #102
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Howard,
I measured the p rods in my Mustang 302 engine and the OD seems to be just over 5/16 so 8mm may work fine. A little polishing may be necessary but should be no big deal. Since they are in the engine and hope to be used someday, I don't know what the ID is but looks like a good piece. I know what you are saying about the machining but I would rather have a short 10-32 stud than a long 6-32 inner shaft. I have some 5-40 SS threaded rod, if you could get 6-32 rod tougher than regular hardware store rod, I think it would be better. Let me know what the OD turns out to be and I may order a couple to play with.

What do you have planned for a clutch and gears??

A comment on the bearings: Why do you suppose Associated used 8 x 16 bearings? They are hard to find and usually expensive ($20.00/pair). Do you think the smaller bearings will have durability issues? At $1.00 apiece, I'll put up with 'em!

Ned
When it became obvious on the RC100 that the 1/4" axle wouldn't suffice any more the fix was some 5/16" x 5/8" flanged bearings (if memory serves scarce and kinda expensive ) , 5/16" ejector pins with heads cut off for axles and lot's of time on the drill press with a reamer , when it came time to productionize I don't think they could find a cheap source for the 5/16" x 5/8" flanged bearings so they went metric , which fortunately was only a light ream the second time !!!!
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:10 PM   #103
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When it became obvious on the RC100 that the 1/4" axle wouldn't suffice any more the fix was some 5/16" x 5/8" flanged bearings (if memory serves scarce and kinda expensive ) , 5/16" ejector pins with heads cut off for axles and lot's of time on the drill press with a reamer , when it came time to productionize I don't think they could find a cheap source for the 5/16" x 5/8" flanged bearings so they went metric , which fortunately was only a light ream the second time !!!!
Thanks for the info, Rick. Do you know what the material is on the ball diff axles? Were the threads ground perhaps? Also, how did they locate the drive washer disk, it appears to be a press fit...
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:42 PM   #104
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The thing I can't figure out is where all the molds would have gone that companies used to make the various bodies. Think of the amount of time spent to sculpt a mold compared to the time to vacu-form it. If it were mine, I think I would have stored them or sold them but I sure wouldn't have trashed them.
I am pretty sure the Parma molds exist. I talked with the owner a year or two ago about getting some re-popped and he told me that was possible. There could be issues as the molds may need repair etc. and that would complicate things. I got the idea, but not a direct quote, that $25 per body with a minimum of 25 of each type would be the approximate charge. Too rich for my blood...

About the same time I found 75liquidlou on eBay selling a number of old Parma bodies for $15 + shipping and got a bunch of them!! He has a website and has usually has some for sale but they are not the 1970's vintage I got on eBay but ones that were made before the crap that is made today (excuse my French!).


http://75liquidlou.mosthatedonline.c...th-bodies.html

Also a bunch of us got together an order for bodies from deltaplastique in Italy and ended up getting some great old stuff for about $30 each shipped (but it is a long story!) These seem to be mostly "backpours" and although I don't like the idea, in this case it was the only way to get vintage bodies.
I have heard that these bodies may be available in the US!

https://www.facebook.com/DeltaPlastikUSA

http://www.deltaplastik.it/

Do lots of eBay searches and google searches and every once in a while you get lucky!

Ned

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Old 08-26-2013, 06:10 PM   #105
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Hi Ned,

Although it would be convenient to keep all of the axle bearings the same size, the 8x12 looks pretty wimpy. For the 5/16" axle, I was going to use 8x14mm as the main support bearings and use the 8x12's in the wheels.

This is just a guess, but I can see three scenarios that would have prompted Associated to use 8x16mm bearings:

1) They found a good deal on 8x16mm bearings;

2) They found a good deal on 8mm shafts for the axles, and the 8x16mm bearings cost the same as any other size (at the time);

2) They wanted to use cheap, non-precision-ground 5/16" shafts for the axles, and the 8x16mm bearings cost the same as any other size (at the time).

We may never know for sure!

I've been looking at the 32p clutch bells from the Associated 1/10 nitro trucks. The smallest is a 14 tooth. Kimbrough makes spurs of 66, 68, 70, and 72 teeth. The 66T/14T combo gives a ratio of 4.7 for tires down to the rim, and the other sizes will be useful for larger tires. I'm unsure if the bell size would be usable for a .21 engine (the bearings are the same as my RC300D), but I haven't given up on the idea of a smaller engine size.

Speaking of smaller (although this thread is for 1/8 scale), I still think the 1/10 scale pan car might be a good idea. Everything (except tires) is much cheaper, and there are actually plenty of 235mm body sizes available. McAllister still makes their Jaguar, Toyota, and Nissan GTP bodies, and Stormer carries the Parma Osella. (As a bonus, all of these bodies actually look like real race cars, as opposed to the excrement that is currently used for 1/8 scale.)
I agree 1/10 scale would be a reasonable alternative to get some gas on-road going and also the idea of using a smaller motor. My first modded RC300 a couple of years ago used a Losi .20 small block, I got the engine and pipe for $50.00 on eBay. I think new the engine is around $150. Also to my thinking 4.7 to 5.12 is a bit low on gearing. I was thinking closer to 5.5 to 5.8. But if you specify a gear ratio range, it would be the same for all. Gonna do some figuring on gear ratios...

I have a set-up using an OS .18 with 32p gears that I never put into a car. It could be used in a 235mm 1/10 or an 1/8th scale "lightweight".

Guess I'm starting to get motivated again!
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