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Old 09-03-2013, 12:17 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by 5italkart View Post
wow you guys are busy, will send pics of my idea at some point. what i'm considering is taking the 2 speed edam clutch removing 1st gear, making something that looks like a clutch bell that threads onto it with a 5mm shaft for a mod 1 pinion. just a thought since the edam clutch works good and is a great price.
For the kits we're building to sell, we're including the Edam clutch bell, spare springs and shoes will be included (tho I have yet to replace either after a full year of running, they seem to get better with age as they wear down...much like the old school setups.) Also using the Edam gears that come with it, tho we've found the 21 tooth works better than the 20 at a track like Toledo.

Gave lots of thought to it over the course of the year, and while the old school in me would prefer gear to gear, with the spur on the drive axle, I've come to realize that it's basically that way now. Using the Kyosho GT setup with an axle shaft is basically the same effect, we get the gear based diff to use....Tom made this call originally and we can't find a reason to deviate for the pan kits we hope to have available for sale come January. That said, I still like your idea we talked about with pinion gear stock and getting it turned down, hope you pursue that idea to see how it turns out.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:58 AM   #137
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Howard, I'm half afraid to get back to you because my usually bullet proof computer died soon after you had your issues!!! LOL

Anyway, thanks for the push rod info. I'll be ordering a couple soon. (have some traveling to do in the next couple of weeks so I wont get much done for a while. Plus I hope to make a couple of races in Ohio in late Sept and October.)

I was discussing the shaft layout with a buddy, NutDriver, and he mentioned alternate locations for the brake disk which would be a big improvement. I'm going with 1/4" jackshaft. I'm sure 1/8 would work, but just looks to wimpy to me! lol It helps to have a lathe, even if it is a small one! I see where you are coming from, being able to use unmodified parts. I believe you should aim your basic gearing closer to 5.5 to 1. 6.9 would really rev the motor!!!

My adapters are simple as I use a nut or screw to attach the wheel. I'm to lazy to add the QC parts and they are not cheap! Some guys a so spoiled that they complain about un screwing a nut to remove a wheel!!

The Diff side is always a bit tricky. I have made adapters for Associated diffs and MRP but they attach to the existing adapter. I expect to be able to make a one-piece adapter for this project. If you get me a sketch I'd be glad to try to make a set up for you. Have you decided what diff rings and thrust washers you will use? Right now I'm planning on using the Kimbrough gear and 1/10 scale rings.

I'll try to get you some pix before I leave.

Ned
Yup, as soon as a computer (mine or someone else's) hears or sees my name, it craps out.

The brake disk is just begging to be on the jackshaft; it's by far the best place to put it!

You may have convinced me to use a 5mm jackshaft. That way the car will be ready to accept either a 32p or mod1 clutch bell by just changing the driven gear, and there won't be any strength issues.

The quick change rears on my RC300 were convenient, but certainly not necessary. Holding the wheels on with a bolt or nut is quite acceptable. I'm very interested to see one of your adapters, once that computer gets fixed!

My current plan for the diff side will be very old-school: I'll use a 1/10 scale drive hub, since it accepts existing 1/10 scale D-style diff rings, and I've reamed its ID to fit nicely over the axle (with a little grease for lubrication). I'll try to use some studs in the existing 1/10 wheel mounting holes to serve as drive dogs to the 1/8 wheel rim. There will be a pair of 8x12mm bearings inside the wheel, then an 8mm ID thrust washer and some Belleville washers and a locknut to set the diff tension. Yes, this means I'll need to remove the locknut, washers, and bearings to change wheels. That's REALLY old-school! If you or anybody else has some better suggestions, I'm love to hear about them or see them.

P.S. I do miss my lathe, but if you had seen my skill in using it, you'd realize that it is better for me to just know a buddy that has one, and can use it properly!
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:19 AM   #138
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Pretty nice workmanship, but I still think the issue is the gear ratio. I'm certain we need close to 5 to 1. I'm shooting for around 5.5.

The smallest pinion I see there is 14 tooth which needs a 70 tooth spur to get to 5 to 1. A 70 tooth spur is probably something like 3 inches O.D. That's pretty big for an 1/8 scale tire diameter.

If you're going to use double reduction with a jack shaft then you likely would want something like 2.5 to 1 on both gear sets similar to what is used in 4wd and belt drive pans (I think most are nearer 2 to 1 using mid 20's pinions.)

But there's always more than one way to skin a cat!!!

Ned

There was a 13T (lower picture) but I see where you are headed.

So the major decision point is to whether to use a brake band around a drum on the jack shaft or main axle or to use a clamp disk brake on either axle?
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:38 AM   #139
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So the major decision point is to whether to use a brake band around a drum on the jack shaft or main axle or to use a clamp disk brake on either axle?
I'm also interested in seeing/hearing about some ideas for the brake!
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:43 PM   #140
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With the RC10GT disk simply riding on a hex, and the caliper being cheap and readily available, I'd like to suggest that as an idea. Ned and I were talking yesterday about the jackshaft and options that it opens. It might be just me, but I HATE the idea of a band on the clutch bell for brakes.

Scott
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:58 PM   #141
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but I HATE the idea of a band on the clutch bell for brakes.

Scott
...do the brakes start to fade bad with the heat buildup in the bell???
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #142
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...do the brakes start to fade bad with the heat buildup in the bell???
Matt, Since you have gone over to the dark side (4wd) so you may not know that brakes on a 2wd pan car are not really that important! LOL

But, sure they get hot do! I'll use carbon/carbon, they like heat!

What about putting the brake "drum" on the jack shaft?
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:51 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by NutDriver View Post
With the RC10GT disk simply riding on a hex, and the caliper being cheap and readily available, I'd like to suggest that as an idea. Ned and I were talking yesterday about the jackshaft and options that it opens. It might be just me, but I HATE the idea of a band on the clutch bell for brakes.

Scott
But Scott, if you had to build it at home, what type of brake would you use!

(Don't really like hex driven stuff, much harder to make parts, if you can't use production made stuff. Also the GT is a 1/10 scale car with a gearbox that may add to the brake's effectiveness. It is somewhat smaller than any 1/10 or 1/8 scale brake I am aware of in use in an on-road car. IF you scale it up you have to put a hex in the disk, easy in production, hard for me. I would suggest pin drive and fiberglass disks,,;-))
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by ScottE1776 View Post
There was a 13T (lower picture) but I see where you are headed.

So the major decision point is to whether to use a brake band around a drum on the jack shaft or main axle or to use a clamp disk brake on either axle?
I think my leading contender is a disk brake, on the jack shaft, using a copy of the Associated 300 type mounting. It's simple, proven, and only has a few parts.

Now I need to figure out how to mount the pieces!!!
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:04 PM   #145
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Matt, Since you have gone over to the dark side (4wd) so you may not know that brakes on a 2wd pan car are not really that important! LOL

But, sure they get hot do! I'll use carbon/carbon, they like heat!

What about putting the brake "drum" on the jack shaft?
..who said I went to the dark side??...4WD was ready for GLC and still don't have a handle on the diff for the pan....Davis is making me adapters so I can run a Mugen gear diff in my pan....should at least make it consistent...Crings buggy diff is working good in his pan...
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps3d59d967.jpg
ground teeth off spur gear and drilled with carbide bit...took Serpent pulley and sliced out middle on lathe
hey Ned...how about endurance all-night pan racing..
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...m/RC300009.jpg
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #146
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Ned,

I'll bring my GT down for you to look at. The rotor rides on a hex that is plastic and engages a drive pin on a shaft. You know me, I'm all for off-the-shelf parts. I'm not sure that the RC10GT hex is large enough in diameter to fit the jackshaft.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:14 PM   #147
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Dunno why this pic isn't showing up.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:32 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by NutDriver View Post
With the RC10GT disk simply riding on a hex, and the caliper being cheap and readily available, I'd like to suggest that as an idea. Ned and I were talking yesterday about the jackshaft and options that it opens. It might be just me, but I HATE the idea of a band on the clutch bell for brakes.

Scott
I'm not a big fan of using the clutch bell for the brake drum, but in my application (using a .15 engine) it might suffice.

Thanks, I checked the RC10GT parts. I like the affordability of Associated parts, but I'd prefer a brake hub that 1) will fit a 5mm shaft without reaming, and 2) doesn't need a hole drilled in the jackshaft for a dowel pin.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:01 PM   #149
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..who said I went to the dark side??...4WD was ready for GLC and still don't have a handle on the diff for the pan....Davis is making me adapters so I can run a Mugen gear diff in my pan....should at least make it consistent...Crings buggy diff is working good in his pan...
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps3d59d967.jpg
ground teeth off spur gear and drilled with carbide bit...took Serpent pulley and sliced out middle on lathe
hey Ned...how about endurance all-night pan racing..
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...m/RC300009.jpg
Glad you are still working on Frankie!! I like the lights! I'd race at night, but the others would not want to do anything so dumb. It's gotta go faster or it's no good....
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:07 PM   #150
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Ned,

I'll bring my GT down for you to look at. The rotor rides on a hex that is plastic and engages a drive pin on a shaft. You know me, I'm all for off-the-shelf parts. I'm not sure that the RC10GT hex is large enough in diameter to fit the jackshaft.

No need. Remember when I said yesterday that it was nice to think of a part I might want to try and look around and find it? I have that set-up in a Custom Works car!!!

I'm not saying that it isn't a reasonable way to go but I have other ideas that I like. The idea you mentioned on putting the brake on the jackshaft was key to me!!!
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