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Old 10-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #1
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Default Gasoline engine for 1/10 onroad?

Is there such a thing? I mean a gas engine, not a nitro engine.

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Old 10-12-2012, 07:46 PM   #2
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there was a 1/8 scale car around a while ago, cant remember what brand it was, nothing mainstream. hpi is working on the gas powered 1/8 scale savage and buggy/truggy, but all we have seen is some teasers. im sure if it comes out you will be able to put the motor into other cars.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:08 PM   #3
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With all the disadvantages of running gasoline as opposed to nitro fuel, I guess my question is.....why??
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:38 PM   #4
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gas has some major upsides. gas doesnt soak up moisture like glow fuel, its far cheaper, and most importantly needle settings on a gas engine are almost set and forget. i havent touched the needles on my 1/5 scale touring car all year.

i honestly think gas could be the next biggest thing for 1/8 and 1/10 scale fuel powered r/c, providing its done right. i always thought os was onto something with the 4 strokes for cars. the end result is they were, but didnt execute it correctly. they required too much work to get them in the car and running correctly for most to bother with. if they had made them a bolt in replacement for small and big block engines and ran well out of the box they would have taken off. this is what hpi needs to do with the gas engines they bring out.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkey_t View Post
gas has some major upsides. gas doesnt soak up moisture like glow fuel, its far cheaper, and most importantly needle settings on a gas engine are almost set and forget. i havent touched the needles on my 1/5 scale touring car all year.

i honestly think gas could be the next biggest thing for 1/8 and 1/10 scale fuel powered r/c, providing its done right. i always thought os was onto something with the 4 strokes for cars. the end result is they were, but didnt execute it correctly. they required too much work to get them in the car and running correctly for most to bother with. if they had made them a bolt in replacement for small and big block engines and ran well out of the box they would have taken off. this is what hpi needs to do with the gas engines they bring out.
So you need a spark and ignition system, it's not going to rev as high and we are going to be heavier and slower. I am not sure why you think the mixture settings won't change at such smaller scales either. At 1/5 scale it's viable, but at 1/10th I just can't see it happening.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkey_t View Post
gas has some major upsides. gas doesnt soak up moisture like glow fuel, its far cheaper, and most importantly needle settings on a gas engine are almost set and forget. i havent touched the needles on my 1/5 scale touring car all year.
Is this just your thinking or is it stated somewhere?
There is no way you can compare an engine with a 10 times smaller version.
Regarding moisturein nitro fuel, that is just a matter of where you do store it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:36 AM   #7
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So you need a spark and ignition system, it's not going to rev as high and we are going to be heavier and slower.
You forgot to mention the fan needed to keep the thing from overheating.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:43 AM   #8
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nitro is is finickey no matter what scale you run it at, and methanol alcohol is even worse. ive worked with both quite a bit on full scale, both working on a nostalgia nitro funny car and multiple different blown alcohol applications. it is in part to do with the low stoichiometric ratio (the ratio of oxygen to fuel where you have a perfect burn). methanol is 6.4:1 oxygen to fuel, nitro is 1.7. with both alcohol and nitro you have narrow air/fuel window where power will be ideal. on the flip side, gasoline has a stoich air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1, and best power is made around 12.8:1. gas has a wide tuning window because of this and is less suceptable to changed in weather conditions.

i honestly cant comment on how it really will work going to 1/10 scale gas. however ive seen go-peds running zenoah based motors on alcohol and around 40% nitro. they are both very finickey and take lots of playing around to get just right. meanwhile, the gas ones are almost set and forget.

everyone seems so quick to shoot down an idea that could change this hobby forever. the nitro world is shrinking, and a gas engine could (not saying for sure that it will) offer easier tuning, cheaper fuel, longer run times, and possibly less noise (depends on the exhaust system), this could really be what the hobby needs to get the fuel powered stuff back on top.

and here is the car i was thinking of http://www.mecoa.com/compagnucci/index.htm
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkey_t View Post
nitro is is finickey no matter what scale you run it at, and methanol alcohol is even worse. ive worked with both quite a bit on full scale, both working on a nostalgia nitro funny car and multiple different blown alcohol applications. it is in part to do with the low stoichiometric ratio (the ratio of oxygen to fuel where you have a perfect burn). methanol is 6.4:1 oxygen to fuel, nitro is 1.7. with both alcohol and nitro you have narrow air/fuel window where power will be ideal. on the flip side, gasoline has a stoich air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1, and best power is made around 12.8:1. gas has a wide tuning window because of this and is less suceptable to changed in weather conditions.

i honestly cant comment on how it really will work going to 1/10 scale gas. however ive seen go-peds running zenoah based motors on alcohol and around 40% nitro. they are both very finickey and take lots of playing around to get just right. meanwhile, the gas ones are almost set and forget.

everyone seems so quick to shoot down an idea that could change this hobby forever. the nitro world is shrinking, and a gas engine could (not saying for sure that it will) offer easier tuning, cheaper fuel, longer run times, and possibly less noise (depends on the exhaust system), this could really be what the hobby needs to get the fuel powered stuff back on top.

and here is the car i was thinking of http://www.mecoa.com/compagnucci/index.htm
Sharkey, not shooting you down mate. For most of us that have been racing 1:10 nitro for a while there are worn bald spots on our heads from scratching as to where to put things and keep the chassis narrow and cg low and pwer to weight ratios. In recent times the engines are the least of our problems.

It's not the nitro thats making the "GAS" cars less appealing, it's battery technology, electronic speed controllers and brushless motors making the EP cars more appealing. Where power and speed, run time was only an option in "gas", electric cars are now as fast, run for longer, more reliable and less maintenance.

Finicky indeed, and in most part due to scale, a cheap .12cubic inch nitro can be a little mongrel to tune, in recent times the price has dropped considerably and and if you hunt around for bargains you can get an older model NovaRossi 353 for less than $300US. They can be reliable and last a few years if cared for with a conrod change or two. In all honesty, these engines need little more than 1/4 turn richer or leaner at most depending on air temp and atmospheric conditions to operate at their optimum.

Yes, many of us have at some point in time looked to 1:5 on-road with envy as they fill it with two stroke, pullstart it and GO!! That's why many people love their Bajas.

On a less serious note, 1:10 engines have taught me how to race tune my whipper snipper and my wife thinks thats the most usefull outcome of us playing with toy cars. For me, nothing beats the smell of Nitro / Castor fuel, love the sound of a 1:10 scale on the pipe screaming at 40,000
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:59 AM   #10
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There was around here a project of a Kyosho Spada 09 with a Os FS56c if my memory doesn't fail.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:27 AM   #11
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i actually do agree with you. ive been in the hobby for almost 13 years now, ive never had problems with nitro engines, however i wasnt your average guy starting off in the hobby, i had a lot of experience with cars and engines. in my first years racing i had an hpi/novarossi .12 in a nitro rs4 2, the engine ran solid and i never thought about it, i was always working to make the car work better. i turned the car into a serious contender, but by that time nobody could look at it and tell you it was an rs4.

nitro really isnt that bad, all us nitro guys know that. however the new guys coming into the hobby asking for input all get turned away by getting told its hard to tune a nitro engine, its messy, loud, and fuel is expensive. so they look at the alternative and find they can go just as fast without all that. but what if there was an offering of gasoline r/c cars in the same price and size range as electric and nitro? again, i know there could be a big difference between 1/5 and 1/10 scale, however $2 of fuel lasting a whole day, 30 minutes run time on one tank, not having to think about tuning much, likely quieter, and (at least i find in 1/5) almost no oily mess. think that would grab peoples attention a little bit? no, its not going to take over and replace nitro, however, i think it will help bring people back into the fuel powered scene and they may work their way over to nitro.
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:20 PM   #12
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The 1/8 gas car from about 10 years ago was called Campanucci or something close to that. However, it did not perform very well.
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:58 PM   #13
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Sharkey...

These are "the bomb"

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/02/o...iscus-retriev/

4WD 1/4 Scale Minis... fabulous to watch, cheaper and they handle and look great on track.

Problem is you need a track big enough to run them. fortunately we have them at our track and if there was another class I'd like to try, this would be it.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:17 PM   #14
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electric 1/5 scales have no soul. with an onroad, by the time the tires are getting warmed up and the car is starting to stick well and able to use the power, the cutoff kicks in and its time for fresh batteries. you really cant beat a gas motor in a large scale. the motor i ported is a bit of a fuel pig, i still get around 45 minutes to a tank on the medium sized track i set up.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
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electric 1/5 scales have no soul. with an onroad, by the time the tires are getting warmed up and the car is starting to stick well and able to use the power, the cutoff kicks in and its time for fresh batteries. you really cant beat a gas motor in a large scale. the motor i ported is a bit of a fuel pig, i still get around 45 minutes to a tank on the medium sized track i set up.
Oh was that an electric? They race the gas versions at our track. Belt drien 4wd
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