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Old 10-13-2012, 10:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by thunderbt3 View Post
I think Xray may do all their plastic molding in-house with their specially formulated plastic. If that's the case, their investment into plastic is huge.
True, but Xray is also known for their steel and aluminium products, a switch could be very easy.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:36 AM   #17
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It alls depends on the driiver if u crash a lot u will be replacing parts etc. But the more avid driver will mostly change parts under normal wear at the speeds of a faster driver u need to expect that parts wiil brake under high speed crashes if not we all would be driving tanks u
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:21 PM   #18
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Funny, if it is made stiffer for a better work of the suspension why have all curent cars a complete flex system?
Bad thing of aluminium parts is that it will bend causing tweak. I have seen people changing the aluminium bulkheads several times..

I am not sure if it is cheaper... Making a good mold for plastics is indeed expensive but milling a complex 3D item as the Serpent gear shaft blocks does also cost some material and machine time. The more simple designs from Shepherd an Mugen can be directly milled or cutted from a plate of aluminium.
The only difference between plastics and aluminium is that with aluminium it is much easier to make direct changes or create some different models to test with. On the other hand current 3D platic printers can do the same with plastics
I started 17 years ago in a mold shop, for the last 7 years I owned a machine shop making airplane parts. Trust me, machining the parts for our cars is way cheaper. Once you have the fixtures and programs to make the parts its actually easy, specially oifyou're making hundreds. Just to be clear I'm taking about cnc machines.

The flex is just a tuning option, the cars are not made to flex more but we are given the option to do it.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #19
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Huraj Hudy

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With this no-compromise approach we find ourselves at the end with 32 moulds needed for the RX8 project! This is a crazy amount of moulds, believe me! For every single composite part I want always to achieve perfection which meant finding the appropriate hardness, toughness against breaking, flexibility due the suspension characteristics, wear resistance, dynamic crash resistance, weight, shrinkage of the part depending on the tolerances we want to achieve, and so on. To find the perfect mix of all these specifications is a real challenge and for the RX8 it was a real nightmare.

Many times I get asked why we don’t replace some of the composite parts with aluminum parts like other manufacturers do. At first I answered that usually the reason why other manufacturers change to aluminum is that for the given quantity the RC market is able to use it is cheaper to produce aluminum parts than to invest heavily into moulds. Moulds still require ongoing updates when the design changes over the years so in many cases it is cheaper to produce the parts in aluminum than in composite. And secondly – in the end the composite parts are (in some applications) much better performing which is the reason we went for composite parts even if it is a bit more expensive."
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:45 PM   #20
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Also from Huraj Hudy

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A typical example would be aluminum bulkheads. It may look fashionable that nitro on-road cars recently use mostly aluminum bulkheads, but in my own opinion it is primarly the cost reason. I have used aluminum bulkheads at my 1/8 on-road cars 27 (!) years ago and have the knowledge and experience to compare it. Back in the years I used aluminum bulkheads when I first started to use fully-independent suspension. Because the alu bulkheads were mounted to the aluminum chassis the vibrations were rippling through the entire car; screws without threadlock fall out and vibrations also had negative influences on the engine. At those times I made a quick fix using composite inserts between chassis and alu bulkheads to stop the vibrations. And ball-bearings were simply not working properly if they are inserted in the aluminum directly.

For this reason, all my old designs as well as with all XRAY cars where we use ball-bearings in aluminum (alu steering blocks or uprights) I have always used composite bushings to ensure that the ball-bearing is gripped in a composite hub so that the bearing works properly instead of the entire thing trying to turn within an aluminum bulkhead! Because of all these experiences I simply knew on Day 1 of RX8 design that we will have to design and produce composite bulkheads. And at the end the racing results of the NT1 – where we also use composite bulkheads – we have proved my theory that the composite bulkheads are simply the proper solution for nitro on-road cars."
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesHealey View Post
Also from Huraj Hudy

"

A typical example would be aluminum bulkheads. It may look fashionable that nitro on-road cars recently use mostly aluminum bulkheads, but in my own opinion it is primarly the cost reason. I have used aluminum bulkheads at my 1/8 on-road cars 27 (!) years ago and have the knowledge and experience to compare it. Back in the years I used aluminum bulkheads when I first started to use fully-independent suspension. Because the alu bulkheads were mounted to the aluminum chassis the vibrations were rippling through the entire car; screws without threadlock fall out and vibrations also had negative influences on the engine. At those times I made a quick fix using composite inserts between chassis and alu bulkheads to stop the vibrations. And ball-bearings were simply not working properly if they are inserted in the aluminum directly.

For this reason, all my old designs as well as with all XRAY cars where we use ball-bearings in aluminum (alu steering blocks or uprights) I have always used composite bushings to ensure that the ball-bearing is gripped in a composite hub so that the bearing works properly instead of the entire thing trying to turn within an aluminum bulkhead! Because of all these experiences I simply knew on Day 1 of RX8 design that we will have to design and produce composite bulkheads. And at the end the racing results of the NT1 – where we also use composite bulkheads – we have proved my theory that the composite bulkheads are simply the proper solution for nitro on-road cars."
You have to take the Hudy columns with pinch of salt.
Xray is one of the very few companies who do their production in house, they own all the machines.
If you change to aluminum bulkheads for your nitro cars you will have a part of you injection molding machines doing nothing and you don't have enough CNC-machines to keep up with production.
If you want to make the switch you will need to invest heavily, something which is difficult in the current economical situation.
So it's easier to write a column saying plastic is still the best option.

Regarding the discussion:

Aluminium

Pro's

-More design possibilities
-Lighter when designed properly
-Durability, doesn't wear out like plastic does
-easy to change the design

Con's

-costs for end user
-Can bend without the user knowing it

Plastic

Pro's

-costs for end user
-doesn't tweak like aluminum

Con's

-wears out, stripped threads
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #22
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I agree......i think he start designing that car when all cars had plastic bulks....
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:44 PM   #23
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I would prefer plastics since its cheaper to replace... Aluminum is the new way to go because it's easier to do in small runs and the companies just pass the added cost to the customer.... X-ray seems to be the only one equipped to do both so I would think they would go with what's better....
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:20 AM   #24
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I think I will stick with the plastic bulk heads for 2013 in my NT1.

Got my eye on a Serpent 747 but that will be further down the line, that car really does look something special and the drivers I know using it are very impressed.
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