R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-25-2007, 01:20 PM   #7156
Tech Elite
 
rmdhawaii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,804
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

..
__________________
Nitro Knowledge Base: http://nitrokb.netne.net
My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/nitrokb -> Lots of on-road nitro & eletric action + some off-road as well
My Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nitrokb/
Kyosho V-ONE RRR WC (x2) \ XRAY T2'007 \ Also owned: XRAY NT1 & Mugen MTX-4

Last edited by rmdhawaii; 01-28-2007 at 11:31 PM.
rmdhawaii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 01:32 PM   #7157
Moderator
 
Artificial-I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rurouni Kenshin
Posts: 3,459
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Artificial-I
Default

Im not sure if you read. But these causes and remedies are straight from mugen.
Artificial-I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 01:57 PM   #7158
Tech Elite
 
rmdhawaii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,804
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

..
__________________
Nitro Knowledge Base: http://nitrokb.netne.net
My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/nitrokb -> Lots of on-road nitro & eletric action + some off-road as well
My Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nitrokb/
Kyosho V-ONE RRR WC (x2) \ XRAY T2'007 \ Also owned: XRAY NT1 & Mugen MTX-4

Last edited by rmdhawaii; 01-28-2007 at 11:30 PM.
rmdhawaii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:08 PM   #7159
Moderator
 
Artificial-I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rurouni Kenshin
Posts: 3,459
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Artificial-I
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
Mugen Seiki Japan or Mugen Racing USA?

JK!

In either case, it would be good to get some validation from the user community.
USA. Like I said im going to re-verify with swauger. As well to verify with the user community, Id need to post that information....right. So there you have it. Also as far as verification goes , its mainly just one person doing something and saying it worked, when we really dont know what might have caused it or fixed it in the first place. Some people never have the issue running near stock mugens. Then all of a sudden one race it goes. All in all its hard to say its not baffling everyone and with the multitude of theories and fixes its pretty obvious were not fully sure either way.

Anyhow im going to use mugens reccomended fixes first, so well see where that route takes me vs everyone else who goes with the threads suggestions. But Im also going to try come up with some of my own. Like the engine brace etc etc. I will with the best of my time be focusing on this issue as there really is no other issue on the car. So I have good confidence In the end Ill have a completely verified list of causes and fixes.

Just to note I work for an actual large national car magazine. As well have been tuning cars for over half my life and ran my own racing community for 12+ years, which I still manage currently. Ive written over 700+ racing articles that are still mainstay info for 1:1 racing over the internet. When I dig into something. I normally come up with an answer.

Ill also try to get a confirmation when the prospec chassis is coming out tommorrow.

Stay tuned.

A.I.
Artificial-I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:14 PM   #7160
Moderator
 
Artificial-I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rurouni Kenshin
Posts: 3,459
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Artificial-I
Default

Also a heads up for everyone (asking for community help). If you blow a gear , please jump on your car fast and get a temp reading of your 2nd gear or a good finger feel. To see if indeed heat is one of the causes. I have a feeling if we can find out if the gear is actually getting hot. Compare it with 1st as well. Then we will have a better chance at dissolving the issue.

Thanks!
Artificial-I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:24 PM   #7161
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Owensboro KY
Posts: 1,175
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to jeff whiting
Default

I have to tell you I have never blown a spur gear on my MTX-4 and it has some miles on it. I raced on the original spurs and pinions for..maybe 10 race dates. And then switched them out as normal maintaince. I used the stock chassis until just recently when I found it was bent and replaced it. The only thing I have ever done to ensure I finish a race is make sure the motor mount screws don't bottom out against each other and always set the gear mesh with the first gear spur off the car. Set the second spur gear slightly tight (almost no gap) and don't even worry about the first gear mesh. For those using the "paper between the gear" method of setting the gap.....forget it. That works in electrics....maybe...but not in Nitro. It winds up being way to wide of a gap.

I am not try to say some of you are not have real problems or anything. Just telling you what I have experienced.
__________________
Thanks to our sponsors: Desoto Racing, Serpent, Ielasi Tuned, HobbyWing, Byron's Fuel, Matrix Tires, Protoform, Futaba, www.LEFComplex.com
jeff whiting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:35 PM   #7162
Tech Regular
 
Bigbarn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 317
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff whiting
I have to tell you I have never blown a spur gear on my MTX-4 and it has some miles on it. I raced on the original spurs and pinions for..maybe 10 race dates. And then switched them out as normal maintaince. I used the stock chassis until just recently when I found it was bent and replaced it. The only thing I have ever done to ensure I finish a race is make sure the motor mount screws don't bottom out against each other and always set the gear mesh with the first gear spur off the car. Set the second spur gear slightly tight (almost no gap) and don't even worry about the first gear mesh. For those using the "paper between the gear" method of setting the gap.....forget it. That works in electrics....maybe...but not in Nitro. It winds up being way to wide of a gap.

I am not try to say some of you are not have real problems or anything. Just telling you what I have experienced.


This has also been my experience. There is a lot of concern over a non-issue if you ask me. AI don't get too upset. Try your car first to see if this problem even exists. A little common sense and checking to make sure everything is tight on your car (ie normal maintenance) should make the gears last.
Bigbarn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 02:36 PM   #7163
Moderator
 
Artificial-I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rurouni Kenshin
Posts: 3,459
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Artificial-I
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff whiting
I have to tell you I have never blown a spur gear on my MTX-4 and it has some miles on it. I raced on the original spurs and pinions for..maybe 10 race dates. And then switched them out as normal maintaince. I used the stock chassis until just recently when I found it was bent and replaced it. The only thing I have ever done to ensure I finish a race is make sure the motor mount screws don't bottom out against each other and always set the gear mesh with the first gear spur off the car. Set the second spur gear slightly tight (almost no gap) and don't even worry about the first gear mesh. For those using the "paper between the gear" method of setting the gap.....forget it. That works in electrics....maybe...but not in Nitro. It winds up being way to wide of a gap.

I am not try to say some of you are not have real problems or anything. Just telling you what I have experienced.
Thats interesting and prooves my point. Its kinda hard to see whats the problem. The interesting thing is though I had some gear blowing problems on one of my vehicles as well everyone else who owned it. I found that when I ran the gear tight almost a bit too tight to where there was slight drag. It wouldnt blow. After that though just swapped to a metal spur.

Good to know.
Artificial-I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 04:36 PM   #7164
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 4,148
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Scott Fisher
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbarn
Sooooo............There must be an opening at Team Mugen......hmmmmmmmmmm.

I know you are joking, but I haven't been part of the Mugen Team since a few days before the sedan nats in June.
__________________
| Capricorn | Ybslow | Proline-Protoform | Johnny Bravo Racing | Desoto Racing | Murnan Modified | Matrix Tires | Powermaster Fuel |
Scott Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 04:55 PM   #7165
Moderator
 
Artificial-I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rurouni Kenshin
Posts: 3,459
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Artificial-I
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbarn
This has also been my experience. There is a lot of concern over a non-issue if you ask me. AI don't get too upset. Try your car first to see if this problem even exists. A little common sense and checking to make sure everything is tight on your car (ie normal maintenance) should make the gears last.
Im sure its just the text format of these conversations. But Iam not upset , in fact Iam actually pretty happy in this thread.
Artificial-I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 07:28 PM   #7166
Tech Regular
 
Bigbarn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 317
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial-I
Im sure its just the text format of these conversations. But Iam not upset , in fact Iam actually pretty happy in this thread.
Yea, It's tough to type emotions. I find this thread to be incredibly helpful and educational.

Yes Scott, just kidding. Congrats on the Kyosho move.
Bigbarn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 11:38 AM   #7167
Tech Champion
 
asw7576's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,792
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial-I
Im sure its just the text format of these conversations. But Iam not upset , in fact Iam actually pretty happy in this thread.
Sometimes the centax or clutchbell actually touch the two speed adapter. If they do, I could only suggest to increase the pinion gears by 1T on both pinions and also use 3x10mm screws for securing rear bulkheads.

In some cars, Two speed adapter might touch the engine brace ( the black plastic that connects rear bulkhead to upper deck ).

Good luck with your improvements.
__________________
On Road : Xray NT1 , RX8 , T4 || Mugen Seiki MRX4-R , MTX4 , MTX3 prospec || Tamiya M03 , M04 || Top Racing Sabre FD2
Off Road : Xray XT8 || Hobao Hyper 8
Radio : Futaba 3PKS || KO propo EX-10 eurus
asw7576 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 12:00 PM   #7168
Tech Fanatic
 
kidDynomite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff whiting
I have to tell you I have never blown a spur gear on my MTX-4 and it has some miles on it. I raced on the original spurs and pinions for..maybe 10 race dates. And then switched them out as normal maintaince. I used the stock chassis until just recently when I found it was bent and replaced it. The only thing I have ever done to ensure I finish a race is make sure the motor mount screws don't bottom out against each other and always set the gear mesh with the first gear spur off the car. Set the second spur gear slightly tight (almost no gap) and don't even worry about the first gear mesh. For those using the "paper between the gear" method of setting the gap.....forget it. That works in electrics....maybe...but not in Nitro. It winds up being way to wide of a gap.
Great points, Jeff. I forgot to mention the gear mesh as well. I too keep 2nd pretty tight, free, but tight. And the engine mounts make a difference as well. I'm still going to pick up the Kawahara MTX4/RRR one-piece mount for more surface area. With the stock mounts. I placed the mounts on my engines and then run the engines (w/mounts) over sand paper on a flat steel block here at work. This is just to scuff the bottom of the mounts up. It also helps to ensure your engine with mounts don't teater-totter on a flat surface. I scuff the chassis too.

One thing I notice on the Mugen Japan site long ago was that the aluminum used for the stock chassis was a different alloy. It spec'd 6061 or something, but I remembered this because I tried googling it to see it's strength values. But after a while it was changed to 7075. I believe that I may have had one of the original kits with a weaker aluminum. I know racers with newer kits that don't tweak after a hit. But as I mentioned before, I could flex my car fully assembled and see the gear mesh open slightly. Now, with a big hit or getting airborn and land on throttle, I'm sure that gap will open up even more. I bet I can go half of the MWSeries without replacing gears if 1) I don't hit anything and 2) engine is mounted securely. Last season I have gone 3 races where my gears still looked brand new. I thought all was solved. 4th race weekend on a slippery track, I went through 3 gears. Everyone was hitting something or each other. That's when I realized the chassis flex in the rear.

I love how the car feels to adjustments, I almost when back to Kyosho and drinking becuase I was so frustrated. Now life is a racing.

A note for rookies, make sure your throttle endpoint is set properly. To much and a good servo will actually pull the engine torwards it. Opening your mesh at WOT. Bye-bye spur gear.
kidDynomite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 12:08 PM   #7169
Tech Fanatic
 
kidDynomite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
I know you are joking, but I haven't been part of the Mugen Team since a few days before the sedan nats in June.

Scott, best of luck to you and the new ride. I talked with Cyrul when comparing the RRR w/ MTX4 early last summer and he hinted that the subtle changes in the RRR Evo would make the car much like the 4. I'm sure you'll do wonders.
kidDynomite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 08:55 PM   #7170
Tech Fanatic
 
blanks596's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles Dojo
Posts: 813
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff whiting
I have to tell you I have never blown a spur gear on my MTX-4 and it has some miles on it. I raced on the original spurs and pinions for..maybe 10 race dates. And then switched them out as normal maintaince. I used the stock chassis until just recently when I found it was bent and replaced it. The only thing I have ever done to ensure I finish a race is make sure the motor mount screws don't bottom out against each other and always set the gear mesh with the first gear spur off the car. Set the second spur gear slightly tight (almost no gap) and don't even worry about the first gear mesh. For those using the "paper between the gear" method of setting the gap.....forget it...
I too, haven't ever experienced a blown spur gear and I've never replaced my gears due to wear on this car and I make use of all of them regularly. I currently use a skyline 1pc mount, and I loctite my screws. I'm using one of the original MTX-4 kits that came with 23t/24t pulley gears and my chassis has a nice tweak to it. I know some people like to play with the teeth spread, but I stay with 6 tooth spread, and I've never had any problems using the alum pin gear. In regards to chassis flex affecting the gear mesh, you've really gotta be aiming for the wall to flex the chassis that bad, especially at that spot.
__________________
Serpent/Desoto Racing
Max S
blanks596 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MUGEN MBX5R/MUGEN MBX5T PROSPEC/TRAXXAS RACE REVO Jason Halvorson R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 01-12-2008 10:32 AM
Mugen 5T Chassis, Mugen 46 Tooth Pinion, Associated Ride Height Gauge bretzkej R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 08-19-2007 06:31 PM
USA's Most Wanted FOR SALE Mugen MBX5R,Losi 8 comp, and Mugen MBX5T Prospec Truggy nobike R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 69 04-28-2007 07:45 PM
Another MTX3 prospec w lots of parts and an optional Mugen X12 w Mugen pipe Scott Fisher R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 11 11-21-2005 05:45 PM
drake xxx nt and mugen mst-1+extras......Looking for a kanai 2 or maybe mugen buggy [email protected] R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 5 06-30-2003 09:31 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:40 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net