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Old 08-20-2006, 08:44 PM   #5851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SalvadoriRacing
if the 2nd speed engages too suddenly (or too late) the spur will suffer and won't hold the higher stress.........
i think this is very true, i dont have this prob at all, the 2speed has to shift at a proper point if it dont than your asking for probs,and its not just the mtx4 its the rrr more so. and the tentson of the belts,they cant be to tight.
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:19 PM   #5852
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Just thinking out loud....

Take this scenario:

The car shifts within the same part of the straight as the other cars, if I were to soften the engagement of the 2 speed, that means I'll have to make it shift earlier by reducing the tension on the 2 speed shoes, that in turn will momentarily bog down the car when 2nd gear engages as it will drop the revs.

What if I lessen the gap between the 2 speed shoes and the housing by screwing in the grub screws which pushes against holder/cam but without creating drag on the two surfaces?
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:42 PM   #5853
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ElectricConvert, I don't think that the Mtx-4 has a problem with the gears.

I am on my sixth gallon of fuel through the car and have only stripped second gear two times. Once I forgot to tighten the engine down and the second I just figured to be a rock because it had a groove in the pinion.

My car is completly stock as far as motor mounts and chassis. I am running a EBmod engine now and have ran the JP mod Novarossi engines also. We have been running thirty minute mains with no problems. But now that I posted this I will probably end up with stripped gears the rest of the season.

We have ran a points race best six out of eight with thirty minute mains and I have won five, came in second in two of them and fifth in one that I was winning when my belt broke after twenty eight minutes of running. Never a gear issue.

I do have the clutch set pretty soft most of the time and I make sure that the two speed clutch is almost touching the alum clutch bell so it doesn't slam into second to hard. I hope this helps.
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:10 PM   #5854
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Thanks Doc.

I'm going to have a closer look at those shoes and housing clearance.

I cannot deal with a loose clutch, we have decent traction here and on some days, we even spray VHT on the track, it would be a shame if we don't make the most of it. I can understand if you have a slippery track. I'm even thinking of putting on a JP Clutch spring (world type ) 93519 on the MTX. That's ultra hard!

I wonder if the shoes were not disengaging from the housing quick enough such that when I back off the throtle for a moment and hit it again, the car could've be taking off in 2nd gear. Is this a possibility?
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:49 AM   #5855
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[QUOTE=ElectricConvert]I am frustrated by this car with the constant stripping of 2nd spur gear.

I gave up running the final in my club yesterday because I stripped a gear in the qualifying and could not be bothered replacing it. This car blows the gear every 2 races, what the hell is wrong with it?

I've already done the following but the problem still exist.

Installed a monoblock.
Installed an aluminum upper brace.
Recheck/replaced the engine clutch ball bearings.
Decreased the gap that the clutch bell travels by adding shims inside the clutch bell, compensated with a tighter clutch spring setting.
Always removed first gear and meshed 2nd gear, then install the first gear. Installed 18/24 steel pinions.
Tapered the 2nd gear housing so it doesn't touch the clutch bell.
Shimmed behind the 2 speed shoe housing pin so it doesn't catch the aluminium brace.

What is the root cause of this nagging issue?

Can someone elaborate on the logic behind these suggesions?

-Replaced the inner 2nd gear clutch balls with some bigger ones (S710's ball diff balls)
-Replaced the 2nd gear clutch shoes with the MTX-3 shoes

-How about going to a 4 mm chassis? Is chassis flex the cause?

Thanks in advance for your constructive input.[/QUOTE

the steel pinions are a must have item as once you start stripping gears with the aluminium ones they will keep stripping, also the 2 speed shoes need to be adjusted out until they almost touch the 2 speed housing. this gives you a less harsh change, you will have to re-adjust your change point after doing the adjustment
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:46 AM   #5856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricConvert
-Replaced the inner 2nd gear clutch balls with some bigger ones (S710's ball diff balls)
-Replaced the 2nd gear clutch shoes with the MTX-3 shoes

-How about going to a 4 mm chassis? Is chassis flex the cause?

Thanks in advance for your constructive input.
The logic (well actually, the logic I have put into this) is that being the S710's diff balls bigger than the ones the MTX-4 provides, you can tighten down the screw and reduce even further the gap between the housing and the shoes, giving you a smoother shift.

The thing about replacin the 2nd gear clutch shoes with the MTX-3 ones is that both me and my friend have always raced MTX-3 2nd gear clutches and if we strip gears its because there was a rock in the way, we blew all the clutch bearings (only has happened once) or the engine moved.

You should also check the length of the arms that hold the rear sway bar. If its too short, the sway bar will come in contact with the housing.
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Old 08-21-2006, 10:49 AM   #5857
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I am looking to get a new engine for my mtx4. I dont want to drop 500 on a engine. I would like to spend anywhere from 150-350. What would you guys recommend? Hows the Murnan mod OS TZ 3 port? thanks
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:03 AM   #5858
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The Novarossi 12-CT is a pretty choice with all around performance!
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:10 AM   #5859
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Yep the .12 CT is a nice motor for sure I run one but for the money any OS .12TZ is a good bet. Even the stocker is a rocket.
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:23 AM   #5860
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The nova Plus 12 3ct is a pretty darn good choice in that price range. The novarossi engines are still the best combination of speed and reliability that you can buy.

There are other fast engines on the market right now but you still hear the tales of broken rods, cranks, carb issues etc. You just don't hear those things about the novarossi engines.

Get a novarossi and then you can worry about something else, not the engine.
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:47 PM   #5861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricConvert

I cannot deal with a loose clutch, we have decent traction here and on some days, we even spray VHT on the track, it would be a shame if we don't make the most of it. I can understand if you have a slippery track. I'm even thinking of putting on a JP Clutch spring (world type ) 93519 on the MTX.
I have ran the yellow shoe with the hard spring before but only when the fast guys come into town so I make sure that I make the A main. Otherwise I use the stock shoe.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:03 PM   #5862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricConvert
Thanks Doc.

I'm going to have a closer look at those shoes and housing clearance.

I cannot deal with a loose clutch, we have decent traction here and on some days, we even spray VHT on the track, it would be a shame if we don't make the most of it. I can understand if you have a slippery track. I'm even thinking of putting on a JP Clutch spring (world type ) 93519 on the MTX. That's ultra hard!

I wonder if the shoes were not disengaging from the housing quick enough such that when I back off the throtle for a moment and hit it again, the car could've be taking off in 2nd gear. Is this a possibility?
If you want a great clutch for high grip conditions, try this recipe (Is what I use on my MRX4 and MTX4). JP Aluminium clutch bell, Mugen Red shoe and H0774 (ultra-stiff type) or the Hard ones (stock silver spring on MTX/MRX).

Red shoe is somewhat expensive, but tried it and liked so much, now on my toolbox there are 5 spare shoes (beware, the red shoe is expensive and if you not adjust the clutch well you can convert it in dust on few minutes).

Seen some time ago, people still want to have a big gap on their 2 speed shoes just to have a more violent 2nd gear engaging, 99.9% of those people stripped 2nd gears (the other 0.01% is about to...). I put more than 40 litres of fuel thru my car (still have the 3mm stock chassis) and haven't stripped a 2nd gear.

What I'm doing for not stripping? Easy: adjust the shoes very close to the endbell (the gap on my second gear is about 15/100 of a milimeter - measured with a feeler gauge). And of course, a correct meshing (remove the 1st gear just to mesh the 2nd and then reinstall the 1st gear spur).
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:32 PM   #5863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Fisher
The nova Plus 12 3ct is a pretty darn good choice in that price range. The novarossi engines are still the best combination of speed and reliability that you can buy.

There are other fast engines on the market right now but you still hear the tales of broken rods, cranks, carb issues etc. You just don't hear those things about the novarossi engines.

Get a novarossi and then you can worry about something else, not the engine.
What about the JP 12-3?? Anyone heard anything about this one?
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:32 PM   #5864
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yellow shoe, super hard spring(the super super hard is to hard LOL) 2shoe with weghts, set at .9 to 1mm thats it an shim the bell wright and this is very important.
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:36 PM   #5865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adim_X
I am looking to get a new engine for my mtx4. I dont want to drop 500 on a engine. I would like to spend anywhere from 150-350. What would you guys recommend? Hows the Murnan mod OS TZ 3 port? thanks
JP STOCK OR A MAX stay with things that are good but thats just me saying this and novarossi
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