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Old 08-12-2012, 05:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by fung_kyle View Post
Other than the PT system, and track material. I think racers can lend their laptop or printer out...
You cant just anyone's laptop...the software is typically expensive just for one PC and it costs hundreds of dollars for extra licenses.

What if the guy you were borrowing stuff from doesn't show? no racing that day? it is very hard to get people to really follow thru, alot of guys promise to help out, and never show.

Again not trying to be a dink....but I have been there... unless you have actually ran your own track or even your own business most people just never understand what a huge commitment is really involved...that is also why so many track owners and race directors get burnt out and quit...after spending all their time and money....people still piss and moan.

I have seen way to many tracks come and go, and it always comes down to the same few things....too little money, too little help and too much whinning from the guys who never help.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:51 PM   #32
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And I don't ever charge someone to help them out, wether it be soldering a motor or battery leads, or helping fix their car or tuning it. I run Tekin electronics and always have my hotwire and laptop with me. It gets used by others on a regular basis. I don't mind as long as I'm not busy getting my own stuff ready. I will charge someone for parts. But only what it cost me to replace them.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:53 PM   #33
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Since no one else touched on this subject, it was really bad form to be charged by a racer to assist you in furthering your knowledge. On road racing is thin enough as it is, without potentially driving a new driver away in this manner.

JMO...
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:55 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Odin544 View Post
Everyone sees your point. The problem is you don't see the other side because you haven't been on the other side. I've never ran my own track either. But I helped out with our onraod program last winter and the guy who puts all the money up filled me in on all our costs. I also organized a new class for onraod and set up the rules. So I got a taste of the people complaining. And trust me, that shit gets old FAST. If it were up to me our local fees would go up slightly. We charge 15 for first entry, 5 for the second, everything after that is free. I'd have it set at 15,10,5 for everything else.

Our onroad club races only bring in 35-40 entries each race. Our rent is around $400. That doesn't include anything else other than rent. Most people run 2 classes locally. So if you do the math you can figure out we barely break even WHEN we do. By the way, money for the rent has to be paid up front for the entire onroad season. So the money guy puts that money out there and HOPES to break even. With no guarantees. Last winter we bought a used road rail system. We asked the local racers to donate some money so we could afford it. Almost everyone said they would donate money for it. Only 5 people actually did.

Our off road season is a whole nother story. We generally have 100+ entries Rent is much lower because its outdoors. We also put on some of the largest races in the NW. But those also take big bucks. Several thousand dollars go into a big race event.

If you can I would suggest you guys volunteer as much time as possible helping out at the track. It's a real eye opener. There is a ton of work that goes into just a club race. Let alone a big regional or national race. Also it will make things easier on everyone else (organizers) and only improves your local track.
+1 Well said
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:59 PM   #35
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I'll try to do that next year if Cadets or school doesn't get in the way. Really want to help the local track out.

Thanks
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:08 PM   #36
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$20 can go a long way. I still can't stress this more. Can anyone that's replying think politely and stop having an attitude? This is a discussion not a hating thread for the guy that started the thread.

Back to the $20 thing, you go every single week, and I go with my dad. That's already $40 a week. For my local track I counted around 23 weeks weather permitting for my dad and I to run.

$40 multiplied by 23 equals $920 and multiply by the number of years you run.

Not going to comment more on that as that will be considered complaining.
Its hard numbers, and its hard to explain to someone who has never ran a business. I realize you are trying to learn but it is a very very sore spot for many of us who really do understand what it takes.

look at this if I wanted to start a simple indoor RC onroad track.

Carpet $5000
AMB system with loaner PT's $5000
PA system $1000
Laptop, printer misc materials $1000

Total $12,000

I rent a cheap crappy run down building for $1500 per month then pay another $500 in utilities .... not to mention the hard cash to build pit space, drivers stand, tables....add electrical, lighting etc. etc. etc. to make the space ready for the track....its not going to be ready for what we intend to do with it....

Hard overhead costs for the loan on equipment and building would be approx $2300 per month.

Lets say you race weekly and have a average turn out of 20 racers 1st car is $15 second is $10 about half the racers may have 2 cars...you would bring in approx $400.00

$400 X 4 weeks per month is a montly revenue of $1600 with a montly cost of $2300....that means a monthly loss of $700. Not to mention all the race directors hard work and time!!! Whats that worth?


I will do a smaller example like our track...outdoors in a parking lot...in Utah racing season in approx 5 months long

Trailer $1000
Track materal $3000
AMB $4000
laptop etc $1000

total $9,000 he has invested in the track

we race 4 times per month...average 12 guys a night at $10 each...$480 per month times 5 months...race director makes $2400 a year...with zero interest it takes 4 years to break even....reality is he would have been paying interest so closer to 5 years to pay off the track equipment...plus in 5 years he would have had to replace a printer or 2, the laptop and pay for upgrades of the scoring software...oh yeah and approx $200-$300 a year in damaged track material.


so really divide up his upfront costs, interest, maintenance it would be impossible to make any profit for approx 4-5 years.... that is if he hasnt got burned out and told everyone to get screwed and shut it down.

even if you double the racers to 24 per night thats still 2 or 3 years of hours and hours of hard work of setting up and tearing down the track...rebuilding and repairing damage...and having to do it with a smile on his face while listening to racers complain about what they dont like about how he run's the track.
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Last edited by utah300rum; 08-13-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:33 PM   #37
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As for helping out a new guy, our onroad is a very close knit group.

Usually if someone breaks there will be 3-4 guys right there with all the partsthey have to get the guy back going.

As for charging someone thats a tough one most the time if I give a guy a small part or a used part I tell him to keep it. If it a larger more expensive part I usually tell them to replace it when they have the money....or give it back after the race is done, but I am talking $25 or more stuff like servos or motors etc. For arms, c-hubs, bearings etc. I usually just give it to a new guy, more experinced racers just usually have an unwritten code to always replace what someone gave you...or make sure you step up and pass it on when someone else needs it.

I have given away dozens of servo arms, pinions, spurs, spacers, bearing etc. etc... I have seen all the other guys do the same...

I am lucky to race with such a great group of guys.....but we do everything we can to keep a new racer going.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:11 AM   #38
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We have the same problem in Australia regarding costing to be a member and race day fees. We are blessed to have a great permanent track with curbs, grass infield, sunken pits and our facility/ track is good enough to hold a worlds on. We charge $80.00 for a yearly membership and $10.00 per club day for our members and $15.00 for non members. Where in this day and age can you actually do anything for a day and only pay $10.00 dollars? As a committee member I see first hand the cost to run such a facility. Clubs only manage to break even in most cases. It takes a lot of hard work by a commited members which sometimes donate their own funds and lots of their time to keep thing going.

To race for a day, the average racer is going to spend 4x the cost of the entry fee, for tires, general wear and tear of their equipment etc. So why do people complain about membership and race day fees when they are set so low? This is what I am still trying to figure out.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:21 AM   #39
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Don't you you think it's stupid that Canada is the 2nd largest country with so less tracks? Especially on road? I personally believe that RC is a great way to boost the economy as the cost is quite high. Also there should be an incentive for those that go setup the track. Like for example people who setipth track should be eligible to a discount for that practice day.

=)


And 36th for population. Thats the problem. Not that many people and everyone is spread out, so your tracks (and your local store for that matter) dont get the volume of traffic that other countries do. So to be profittable they have to charge more money.


IROCC. $20 per member per year. $10 per year for kids, $5 per class. Its a temperary parking lot track.

Shawn
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #40
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And 36th for population. Thats the problem. Not that many people and everyone is spread out, so your tracks (and your local store for that matter) dont get the volume of traffic that other countries do. So to be profittable they have to charge more money.


IROCC. $20 per member per year. $10 per year for kids, $5 per class. Its a temperary parking lot track.

Shawn
Checked IROCC out. Makes me want to move to Victoria now.. Maybe UVIC's a good idea in 2 years... Running their is much more economically.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:42 PM   #41
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As one of the RRR Club Exec's I'm sorry you didn't feel welcomed when you came to RRR Kyle.

However, our prices are completely justifiable when it comes to club days - Like everyone says, everything has a cost, and we actually ARE lucky IF we break even.

Also, we do have a discount for those helping with track teardown.

Sure some tracks are cheaper, but everything is always a trade off. To be honest, if you think $10 a day of club racing is reasonable, $10 more should be nothing, considering how much we all spend on RC. Comparatively, a game of bowling in Vancouver is about $10, and lasts less than an hour.

What cars did you bring when you came out, Kyle?
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #42
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I believe.... 2 Serpent 950R... And I see... I discount. No one ever mentioned this to me.

Maybe I'll go to the other side of RRR next time I go.. Which is unknown. Last time I was near Ken and Alex's side so I didn't really meet other people other than accidentally hitting people's cars.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:04 PM   #43
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I believe.... 2 Serpent 950R... And I see... I discount. No one ever mentioned this to me.

Maybe I'll go to the other side of RRR next time I go.. Which is unknown. Last time I was near Ken and Alex's side so I didn't really meet other people other than accidentally hitting people's cars.
We will be at our track (RRR)Sunday come on out and say hi.
I see your looking for parts and such for the 950r .I am a Serpent fan from the impulse days to now I should have what your looking for .
Come out and join the fun
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:31 AM   #44
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At the track I run In Lincoln, NE, we have permanant onroad and offroad tracks. Our yearly club fee is $30. For weekly club racing, entry fee is $5 for members and $10 for non members. For 2 day races it varies from $15 to $25.

This is very cheap. Should double the entry fee for weekly races.

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Old 08-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #45
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We will be at our track (RRR)Sunday come on out and say hi.
I see your looking for parts and such for the 950r .I am a Serpent fan from the impulse days to now I should have what your looking for .
Come out and join the fun
iF I AM NOT MISTAKEN I HAVE A TON OF NEW 950 PARTS IN BAGS CHEAP, PM me if you like, thanks PM ME

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