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Old 08-09-2012, 03:23 PM   #31
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http://www.conrad.nl/ce/nl/product/2...10060&ref=list

It is a 12v 540 motor with a bolted on gearbox with a ratio of 148:1

With a 16t pulley which can be directly mounted on the 6mm shaft and a 48t Mugen rear pulley I do come at about 1 turn per seccond. Fast enough and very strong.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:46 PM   #32
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Don't forget to apply the sun tan lotion after the sauce.
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:10 PM   #33
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I'm working on how to videos.

Keeping politics aside, my best answer to the question is there is no "best" way.

Unfortunately there are too many variables to have a single surefire way to apply additive and get consistent results. With that being said I've spent a considerable amount of time perfecting different methods for different conditions over the last 29 years I've been racing (in electric additive has been pretty much mandatory since I can remember). I can boil it down into a couple starting points and then we can let the forums take it from there to add more details and you can then make up your mind what you'd like to try.

I treat additives just like any other part of my setup, body shell choice, engine tune or speed controller profile setting. I record what I do in detail so I can repeat it if it ends up working.

A couple of things before you really go nuts

  1. Know your media
    1. Harder tires need to be treated differently than softer tires. Rubber tires for electric need to be treated differently than foams. Different BRANDS of rubber behave differently when you treat them.
  2. Know your additive
    1. I make 4 additives, mild, medium and i want my car to run on the ceiling, then I make one for electric touring rubber. Know what kind of grip the additive you are using adds, as it affects how and when you apply it.
  3. Know your conditions
    1. Cold weather you apply additive differently than in hot weather
    2. Humidity affects some additives (but not all), and direct sunlight affects ALL additive so be careful where you put your tires and additive bottle.
O.k. Now to rules of thumb these are what I have noticed over the course of the years applying additives and through the course of developing and testing my line of additives. This is what I discovered, not here to refute anyone else's discoveries simply sharing my personal experience for the benefit of the guy asking the question.

Do's
  1. Scratch in a section on your setup sheet for additive that way you know what you did and it’s not black magic.
  2. Use the same additive for the whole course of a race meet. Don’t change mid meet, that is like getting a new body shell and then not giving it a real shot.
  3. Take every one’s advice about additive (unless of course they are encouraging you to cheat, then you just punch them in the nose cause cheating is bad for everyone involved) however don’t USE everyone’s advice about additive. If you race and have raced for a while I’m sure you’ve come to realize that people will leave key bits of what they REALLY do out of what they tell you =D. So listen intently but do your own thing.
  4. Don’t keep switching up brands of tires either rubber composition apparently has a MUCH bigger effect on the consistency of the additive than I’d previously thought. Seriously, if you use Ennetti or Contact or whatever stick with it even when switching additives. And I’d even go as far as to say switch additives BEFORE you switch tire brands!!
  5. Adding heat to tires with additive is not necessarily a bad thing, but again your mileage may vary.
Don’ts
1. Don’t leave your foam tires w/ additive on them in a tire cooker (electric rubber are fine). Don’t ask me how/why this is important, let’s just say I know first-hand experience why hahaha.
2. Don’t use lacquer thinner or acetone based additive on foam tires, they loosen the glue that holds the tire to rim if you apply the additive correctly.
3. Don’t cheat, if the rules say don’t do it … then don’t do it!


O.k. now the good stuff:
How to apply!!


There will be videos of this very soon.


O.k. on road nitro foam for 1/10 and 1/8 touring
1) For thinner lighter in color (clear or almost clear, free flowing additives) apply to the tire judiciously. I mean you want the tire dripping, this stuff evaporates and leaves behind the chemical part that does the work. So you want that chemical deep in the tire so the more you put on the better your chances of getting it all the way through the rubber and having a consistent feel all the way through your run.
2) For thicker oily almost additives it takes more elbow grease to get it in to the foam and I tend to massage these types of additives in with my hands and then reapply and massage and go at it one last time. This method works especially well on 1/8 tires w/ all that rubber on them.
3) Applying additive to a section of the tire’s face has limited benefits. Nitro cars are heavy, unlike 1/12 pan cars. They put a good deal of pressure on the tire and if you’ve put enough additive on your tire to soak down into the rubber it’s going to make it’s way across the whole tire in a lap or two when the tire heats up. If you don’t want too much grip, try a less aggressive additive, or put less on in general and use the massage method above.
4) Applying additive a few days in advance is a sure fire way to get the additive all the way into the rubber. Using zip lock bags is also a plus. For whatever reason containing the fumes from the evaporating additive seems to make all the processes happen faster.


If you are in a rush:


Massage the additive into the rubber of the tire, and sit them in the sun in a zip lock. For the thicker oil based additives this will cut absorption time drastically! Don’t use a heat gun, you will warp the rim … again don’t ask me how I know =D.


Be mindful!!! If you do not massage the additive in you will wear it all off in the first couple of laps and your run will be inconsistent.
Using a machine will allow you to save your strength. Either application method you should bag your tires after you’ve applied the additive.


Notes:
You can cut tires with additive on them, it just makes more smoke and it’s probably NOT a good idea to be breathing that smoke.
You get out what you put in, just like w/ car maintenance or even the build process. If you rush it or don’t pay attention you will get mixed results. SO … keep an eye out for my videos on the site and youtube.com.
Electric guys are well versed in additive so I’ll just stick to the nitro side.

Again .. DON’T CHEAT!!! If you aren’t supposed to use additive, don’t. If it’s legal by the rules you may also find that additive adds too MUCH traction and have your car flipping off the track going straight!! So use your head maybe people stop making such a big deal out of additive like they did timing in motors and serrated brushes loooong year ago.


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Last edited by YmeBP; 08-09-2012 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:28 PM   #34
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Good advice and matches many of my findings.
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:27 PM   #35
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Excellent info YmeBP. Thanks!

Generally speaking, will the additives made for 1/10 or 1/12 EP cars work the same way on 1/8 rubber foams ? It is still difficult to find additives 'specifically designed' for 1/8 on-road tyres.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:24 PM   #36
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Great info!

Question - Does addictive increase or help decrease tyre wear for 1/8 on road?
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppernick View Post
Excellent info YmeBP. Thanks!

Generally speaking, will the additives made for 1/10 or 1/12 EP cars work the same way on 1/8 rubber foams ? It is still difficult to find additives 'specifically designed' for 1/8 on-road tyres.
There's plenty of nitro onroad additives available in Italy.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X4 View Post
Great info!

Question - Does addictive increase or help decrease tyre wear for 1/8 on road?
Pietsch made 3 tyre stops in the 45 minute EC final last weekend. (that's 4 sets of tyres)
Even in qualifying they ran different tyres in the 3 minute warm up time and changed to their sauced race tyres just before the start, because a.) the wear was too high, and b.) the tyres lost their prime time too soon.

This is all great and we should all be thankful that this has been added to our hobby, which otherwise would be soo simple and boring.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Pietsch made 3 tyre stops in the 45 minute EC final last weekend. (that's 4 sets of tyres)
Even in qualifying they ran different tyres in the 3 minute warm up time and changed to their sauced race tyres just before the start, because a.) the wear was too high, and b.) the tyres lost their prime time too soon.

This is all great and we should all be thankful that this has been added to our hobby, which otherwise would be soo simple and boring.
Thanks for the reply stefan.

So theoritically, using 35/37 with addictives may not have the same grip as using 32/35 w/o addictives?
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X4 View Post
Thanks for the reply stefan.

So theoritically, using 35/37 with addictives may not have the same grip as using 32/35 w/o addictives?
Sorry, I don't know. I stay as far away from this crap as I can
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:56 AM   #41
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One more note:

I find some nitro tires have a tighter smaller "air cell" (the little bubble that forms in the rubber to make it "foam" vs the reg rubber like electric) than electric foam. What this does is make the foam more resilient and wear better but they are harder in shore. Get an old or chunked front nitro tire cut it and take a close look at the "bubbles" in the foam, do the same for the rears, you may find that the front has tighter smaller "bubbles" to make them firmer than rears. Again guys this is not gospel i don't claim to be an expert, just what I am finding with my ongoing testing and development of my products. I hope someone with more technical knowledge of this can chime in and add some color to this.

Have you ever seen people cut rears narrower to fit on the front of their car because they are looking for front grip? This is why, a 35 front is harder than a 35 rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peppernick View Post
Excellent info YmeBP. Thanks!

Generally speaking, will the additives made for 1/10 or 1/12 EP cars work the same way on 1/8 rubber foams ? It is still difficult to find additives 'specifically designed' for 1/8 on-road tyres.
No you don't have to use additives "specifically designed for 1/8". In general the additives for electric will work with nitro foam as the foam's basic chemical construction is the same. You WILL find though that most electric additives are the clear or watery kind, follow the advice above with this type of additive make sure you soak the tire. FXII, Liquid Gravity, Jack the gripper, and a few others fall into this category. You can find denser oily ones from Schumacher, Sweep, Capricorn, Trinity and others.

I find that the denser oily additives give me better grip when it's hot (track temp over 100*F/38*C, and the lighter ones (except Liquid gravity which seems consistent no matter what temperature it is) like it better when it's cooler than 100*/38*. <= again standard disclaimer no flames please just my experience add your experience ad we all get faster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by X4 View Post
Great info!

Question - Does addictive increase or help decrease tyre wear for 1/8 on road?
This depends! And it's not a simple answer unfortunately, in 1/10 I've found that the less "scrub" or the tire moving sideways across the track the lower the wear, if you can get enough grip and tune your setup to remove that sideways motion your tire wear will go down with additives.

For 1/8 tire slippage is part of how you drive the car. If you stick your car to the track like glue you may actually INCREASE the tire wear because the amount of mechanical grip you have and no diff action one of your wheels will essentially behave like you are putting it on a grinding stone (or truer!!). So the bottom line on 1/8 ... medium aggressive additives seem to work best for tire wear, so things like FXII, Jack the Gripper, Capricorn or Tire Tweak may work best for you if you are looking for grip and good wear. If you use some of the higher grip additives you may find your wear increase and the need to change tires also increase in 1/8 and you have to be on the higher skill side to turn the grip into lap times. <= Yup my standard disclaimer ... it's a general statement don't know about you I know my last qual would have put me #1 in the a but I hit some traffic


Quote:
Originally Posted by X4 View Post
Thanks for the reply stefan.

So theoritically, using 35/37 with addictives may not have the same grip as using 32/35 w/o addictives?
In theory yes, but I would again caution you, if you don't adjust setup for the additional grip additive provides you may find that your harder tires wear faster than the softer ones did. I've seen this happen a couple of times on my Kyosho RRR. I'd setup my car for 32/35 apply treated 35/37 and end up running out of tires faster than if I were running untreated tires! I made some small adjustments, turned down the dual rate, dropped the shocks down towards the center line a hole and stiffened the front roll bar a bit and my tire wear went WAY down AND my lap times did too!!

I run Shepherd 1/10 now and I find that I have so much mechanical grip that I rarely run additives. I'm working on my consistency and actually this weekend I will be running tires with additives for the first time with the new 2012 Shepherd. I will report what I find to this thread.


If we can keep this kind of dialog going I think we can take some of the mystery out of additive. I also think people will see that they are pretty fast and don't really need it all the time. Again I've seen people go slower w/ additive than without because they had too much grip and couldn't keep the wheels facing down hahaha.
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:38 AM   #42
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YmeBP thanks man! U da man for sharing all the info!

I run the new Shepherd v8'11 with the new top deck and front anti roll bar, i too find that i have plenty of mechanical grip w/o addictives but the tyre wear is a bit of a problem for me.

Just wondering if i could find a solution to the tyre wear using addictives w/o losing grip.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing all the info.
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:25 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by X4 View Post
YmeBP thanks man! U da man for sharing all the info!

I run the new Shepherd v8'11 with the new top deck and front anti roll bar, i too find that i have plenty of mechanical grip w/o addictives but the tyre wear is a bit of a problem for me.

Just wondering if i could find a solution to the tyre wear using addictives w/o losing grip.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing all the info.
Harder tire treated.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:10 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by X4 View Post
YmeBP thanks man! U da man for sharing all the info!

I run the new Shepherd v8'11 with the new top deck and front anti roll bar, i too find that i have plenty of mechanical grip w/o addictives but the tyre wear is a bit of a problem for me.

Just wondering if i could find a solution to the tyre wear using addictives w/o losing grip.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing all the info.
Believe it or not you can reduce wear w/ additives, but you can't do both in 1/8, at least in my experience you can't do both.

I have some 1/8 drivers testing out an additive so aggressive you can't cut the tires with it applied because the shavings stick together and gum everything up. I've asked them to stiffen their cars (RX8, V8'11, MRX4) and drive them like sedans (use brakes vs drifting through the corners). I will report my findings. I'm not holding my breath though, 1/8 cars are so powerful and create so much downforce in a corner i'm sure they are gonna either just traction roll, or tear the rubber from the tires.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:25 PM   #45
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Believe it or not you can reduce wear w/ additives, but you can't do both in 1/8, at least in my experience you can't do both.

I have some 1/8 drivers testing out an additive so aggressive you can't cut the tires with it applied because the shavings stick together and gum everything up. I've asked them to stiffen their cars (RX8, V8'11, MRX4) and drive them like sedans (use brakes vs drifting through the corners). I will report my findings. I'm not holding my breath though, 1/8 cars are so powerful and create so much downforce in a corner i'm sure they are gonna either just traction roll, or tear the rubber from the tires.
Great! Do keep us updated and can't wait for your videos!
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