R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-28-2012, 11:43 PM   #1
Tech Elite
 
brothainchrist0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,041
Trader Rating: 145 (100%+)
Default Buy faster engine or change gearing?

Hey guys! I am finally to the point in my driving ability that I can start putting a little money into my car to make it a little faster and more competitive. Now, I just raced a major race on my local track and noticed that my car does not have the speed low or top end of some of the other cars of the guys from out of town who are known to be top 3 just about every time. So my question is, should I just buy a newer and faster motor or should I mess with the gearing. I am running a Mugen MTX-4R with an OS .12 turbo motor. They seemed to be faster on the back stretch as well as out of every turn. thanks!
kyle
__________________
2017 Xray RX8 - Ielasi Modified Engines/Matrix Tires/Savox Servos/Airtronics Radio

IGT Hobbies - The one stop shop for anything on-road and incredible customer service.
brothainchrist0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:04 AM   #2
Tech Addict
 
hitcharide1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 651
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to hitcharide1
Default Hey

What percent nitro are you running? You can overcome a lot of probs by increasing the nitro, if you can keep the car running fast enough to cool itself and set the carb properly. Most gear changes end in a trade off...what you do on the top changes the bottom as well, unless you do something like bump a gear on the bottom to get you quicker punch out of the corner, which you then compensate for by changing your two speed timing, which is usually where the better percent nitro kicks in to give you the torque to make up for that difference....
hitcharide1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:05 AM   #3
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,240
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Smile

You need to get a good engine tuner to tune your present engine and also, as a backup, get a faster engine from your tuner... I use ABmods, and won't run anything else.... There are many other tuners out there,but I have seen the 8+mph difference ABmods engines put out with unreal bottom end, for only $85... You can't go wrong there, specially if you preheat your motor, and lube the piston with Zmaxx and the likes.......
bertrandsv87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:14 AM   #4
Tech Champion
 
nitrodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oxnard, CA
Posts: 5,843
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Spend your money in a better motor, you dont need any mods yet, it sounds like you're just getting started. You can find novas 353 for $250 these days, brand new.
__________________
Steven Muller
AKA El Pibe RUFAST? HAHA!!!
Ronin Speed Parts
nitrodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:59 AM   #5
Tech Elite
 
brothainchrist0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,041
Trader Rating: 145 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitcharide1 View Post
What percent nitro are you running? You can overcome a lot of probs by increasing the nitro, if you can keep the car running fast enough to cool itself and set the carb properly. Most gear changes end in a trade off...what you do on the top changes the bottom as well, unless you do something like bump a gear on the bottom to get you quicker punch out of the corner, which you then compensate for by changing your two speed timing, which is usually where the better percent nitro kicks in to give you the torque to make up for that difference....
That's a good point, I run 20 percent nitro and the engine, if i'm tuning by temp, is about perfect but just isnt quick enough.

And yes, I was looking at the nova 353 engines actually and am strongly considering buying one but I just didnt know if there were any ways to make my current one fast enough. And I have been racing for couple years now but have always had this motor and my driving ability is finally good enough and consistant that it's going to be about the right equipment now and the right set up.

$85 dollar motor? I dont know if I would trust that. I would feel much much better going with the nova 353
__________________
2017 Xray RX8 - Ielasi Modified Engines/Matrix Tires/Savox Servos/Airtronics Radio

IGT Hobbies - The one stop shop for anything on-road and incredible customer service.
brothainchrist0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:24 AM   #6
Tech Elite
 
blis's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodude View Post
Spend your money in a better motor, you dont need any mods yet, it sounds like you're just getting started. You can find novas 353 for $250 these days, brand new.
+1

A Nova or nova based engine that's run in, maintained and tuned will last and deliver what you are looking for.

Tinker with your clutch for the bottom end accelleration and set 2nd spur/pinion to redline at the braking point of the longest straight. Then work the gear change for optimum performance infield.
__________________
RC Cars: E4/G4/TCX/LAB-C02/T4'15/MM Engines
WEB: Beachmums Racing - MYRCM Race Registration
Media: Amain - RCRacingTV - RedRC - LiveRC - blisx264
blis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:30 AM   #7
Tech Elite
 
brothainchrist0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,041
Trader Rating: 145 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blis View Post
+1

A Nova or nova based engine that's run in, maintained and tuned will last and deliver what you are looking for.

Tinker with your clutch for the bottom end accelleration and set 2nd spur/pinion to redline at the braking point of the longest straight. Then work the gear change for optimum performance infield.


Wow, sounds like I have some more learning to do. I might just burn up this motor this season and then buy the new one for next season. I really appreciate all your help guys. Sounds like nova motor is the way to go
__________________
2017 Xray RX8 - Ielasi Modified Engines/Matrix Tires/Savox Servos/Airtronics Radio

IGT Hobbies - The one stop shop for anything on-road and incredible customer service.
brothainchrist0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:56 AM   #8
Tech Elite
 
blis's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brothainchrist0 View Post
Wow, sounds like I have some more learning to do. I might just burn up this motor this season and then buy the new one for next season. I really appreciate all your help guys. Sounds like nova motor is the way to go
What OS engine model is it?
__________________
RC Cars: E4/G4/TCX/LAB-C02/T4'15/MM Engines
WEB: Beachmums Racing - MYRCM Race Registration
Media: Amain - RCRacingTV - RedRC - LiveRC - blisx264
blis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 04:20 AM   #9
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.moorebankraceway.com
Posts: 5,119
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brothainchrist0 View Post
Hey guys! I am finally to the point in my driving ability that I can start putting a little money into my car to make it a little faster and more competitive. Now, I just raced a major race on my local track and noticed that my car does not have the speed low or top end of some of the other cars of the guys from out of town who are known to be top 3 just about every time. So my question is, should I just buy a newer and faster motor or should I mess with the gearing. I am running a Mugen MTX-4R with an OS .12 turbo motor. They seemed to be faster on the back stretch as well as out of every turn. thanks!
kyle
don't get a new engine until you know these things:
-how to tune your clutch properly. Ask an experienced guy for help. you could gain massive punch and top end if you have it set incorrectly and finally tune it right.
-once you have the clutch set up right, then make sure your engine still has compression.
-buy some spur gears (1st and 2nd gears) and play around with these. some engines prefer a torque gear setup.

id recommend going with a larger 1st gear (for torque and a slightly smaller 2nd gear, or 1 tooth higher ont he 2nd pinion for more top end). Adjusting pinions gives you agreater gain, but soemtimes it is too much. Adjusting spur gears gives a smaller and finer adjustment.

remember, if you are new you need to learn how to set up a clutch and how to use gears for torque and top end. Better this now than wasting on a new engine. Sure, a new engine will give you speed, but you have not learnt anything and potentially, you are making the same mistakes as before!
TomB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 05:30 AM   #10
Tech Elite
 
brothainchrist0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,041
Trader Rating: 145 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blis View Post
What OS engine model is it?
It is the OS .12 TZ
__________________
2017 Xray RX8 - Ielasi Modified Engines/Matrix Tires/Savox Servos/Airtronics Radio

IGT Hobbies - The one stop shop for anything on-road and incredible customer service.
brothainchrist0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 05:31 AM   #11
Tech Elite
 
brothainchrist0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,041
Trader Rating: 145 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
don't get a new engine until you know these things:
-how to tune your clutch properly. Ask an experienced guy for help. you could gain massive punch and top end if you have it set incorrectly and finally tune it right.
-once you have the clutch set up right, then make sure your engine still has compression.
-buy some spur gears (1st and 2nd gears) and play around with these. some engines prefer a torque gear setup.

id recommend going with a larger 1st gear (for torque and a slightly smaller 2nd gear, or 1 tooth higher ont he 2nd pinion for more top end). Adjusting pinions gives you agreater gain, but soemtimes it is too much. Adjusting spur gears gives a smaller and finer adjustment.

remember, if you are new you need to learn how to set up a clutch and how to use gears for torque and top end. Better this now than wasting on a new engine. Sure, a new engine will give you speed, but you have not learnt anything and potentially, you are making the same mistakes as before!

alright, I think u are completely right. I learned a lot about tuning the engine and suspension set up in the last couple years, now i'll focus on learning how to correctly set up a clutch and gearing. thanks a lot for the input you guys! This is why I love this site.
__________________
2017 Xray RX8 - Ielasi Modified Engines/Matrix Tires/Savox Servos/Airtronics Radio

IGT Hobbies - The one stop shop for anything on-road and incredible customer service.
brothainchrist0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 05:47 PM   #12
Tech Elite
 
brothainchrist0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 3,041
Trader Rating: 145 (100%+)
Default

alright guys, I tore into the clutch and it already has the lighter shoes and stiff spring to give it that quicker lower which is what I was going to go for and since I have the mugen mtx4r bell housing, I don't have a lot of options as far as tuning the clutch. Now, what is next? If you regear 1st gear, you have to regear 2nd as well right? u cant just do one?
__________________
2017 Xray RX8 - Ielasi Modified Engines/Matrix Tires/Savox Servos/Airtronics Radio

IGT Hobbies - The one stop shop for anything on-road and incredible customer service.
brothainchrist0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 11:32 PM   #13
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,240
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Smile

Brotha, I think you misunderstood the $85 mod from Abmods. That's $85 on top of engine price or $85 for a mod on a motor you already have.... You can do all the clutch Work and 353novarossi swap you want but you won't catch someone else that has tuner prepped motor... Why waist time with an unmodified motor to compete against modified ones???? Get yourself a modified motor(353 if you want) or modify your existing OS tz for $85 to $100 !!!! Then after that, redo all the clutch Work you want... This notion that you got to start with poor performing motor before you upgrade to a really modified motor is a waist of time and money , and only contributes to further frustration of the newbies.....
bertrandsv87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 01:59 AM   #14
Tech Elite
 
blis's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brothainchrist0 View Post
alright guys, I tore into the clutch and it already has the lighter shoes and stiff spring to give it that quicker lower which is what I was going to go for and since I have the mugen mtx4r bell housing, I don't have a lot of options as far as tuning the clutch. Now, what is next? If you regear 1st gear, you have to regear 2nd as well right? u cant just do one?
If you lower the gearing on 1st gear take note that it's the 2peed drum RPM that will shift, not engine RPM. So by lowering 1st gear you will in effect shift gears later at higher engine RPM. If 2nd is too long then it may stress belts and pulleys and engine on the shift, but this isn't as much a problem on getting good shift and constant accelration.

Unless you have trouble shifting, I suggest leaving 1st gear alone to begin with, changing your 2nd gear to the longest straight and then setup the 2nd speed shift for infield short straights and corners as mentioned before. If you find your 2speed shoe is still tight and want to accellerate faster, then move onto lowering the 1st gear ratio.

It can also be about engines too, I'd question any need for modding a novarossi, if a 353 isn't enough for you, you wouldn't be here asking. Stick with the OS TZ, maintain it and get your gearing right for the track. They last forever, once you've bitten the Nova bug, it's hard to look back, you know what I mean.

PS: Reducing ratio with spurs will be a less dramatic ratio change than than if you reduce pinions.

Happiness is wanting what you have, not having what you want.:
__________________
RC Cars: E4/G4/TCX/LAB-C02/T4'15/MM Engines
WEB: Beachmums Racing - MYRCM Race Registration
Media: Amain - RCRacingTV - RedRC - LiveRC - blisx264
blis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 02:00 AM   #15
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.moorebankraceway.com
Posts: 5,119
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
Brotha, I think you misunderstood the $85 mod from Abmods. That's $85 on top of engine price or $85 for a mod on a motor you already have.... You can do all the clutch Work and 353novarossi swap you want but you won't catch someone else that has tuner prepped motor... Why waist time with an unmodified motor to compete against modified ones???? Get yourself a modified motor(353 if you want) or modify your existing OS tz for $85 to $100 !!!! Then after that, redo all the clutch Work you want... This notion that you got to start with poor performing motor before you upgrade to a really modified motor is a waist of time and money , and only contributes to further frustration of the newbies.....

there is no point spending $85 to $100 on modifying a used motor. for all we know it might have only4 or 5 litres worth of life in it. If you modify an engine it's best to do it before it has been used to get the most out of your investment.
TomB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Novarossi engines thread EVOLUTION Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 5445 Today 03:35 AM
engine modifying ChvyPwr-BB Nitro On-Road 125 12-12-2004 11:33 AM
OS .12 TR Sould I buy one gijoe64 Nitro On-Road 66 05-14-2004 07:44 AM
electric or nitro? im stuck!!!! rcnewbie Rookie Zone 28 04-30-2003 02:42 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:10 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net