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Old 07-05-2002, 07:12 AM   #1
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Default What happened to team mugen in the sedan nationals?

I love my MTX-2, it is locally one of our most successful nitro tourers, driven by the top drivers...but in the sedan nationals we couldn't even get a car in the A main...In Japan, it is the strongest contender only followed closley behind by the VoneR. Don't get me wrong...I also have an impulse and its an excellent car.

It's just that... Not to mince words, but the mugens made a really poor showing of their actual potential in the nationals didn't they?

Is this JUST a gearing issue as I saw being mentioned in another thread?

I wasn't there, so I really wouldn't know...what do you think?
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Old 07-05-2002, 08:19 AM   #2
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Team Mugen don't have the luck they need that day
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Old 07-05-2002, 01:14 PM   #3
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I also think that they don't have the right caliber of drivers...
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Old 07-05-2002, 02:14 PM   #4
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hate to say this but mugan did just fine the caliber of drivers and the sheer number of factory sponsered drivers outweighed any rc event i have seen in years...... if you hit the top 40 you should of been dancing around........

a main drivers are exceptional quality of drivers..... especially in the company of the drivers at the nats... nobody should have held there head low for a performance they did.. the racing was close and incredibally competitive....
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Old 07-06-2002, 01:57 AM   #5
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What are you talking about caliber of drivers? If you don't think Mike Swauger has what it takes to get it done, come over to Cali and race at RCCAR. I'm sure Mikey would love to show you what nitro racing is all about.

That track is way too big for sedans IMO and Mugen just doesn't have the right internal gearing for a track of that size. Unless Mugen comes out with new pulleys and belts, I don't see it happening. I barely have enough gear to pull the Silver Bowl in Vegas with the dual sweeper configuration. And the track in Ohio is bigger!
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Old 07-06-2002, 05:57 AM   #6
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I'm talking about multiple national champions like Ralp Burch, Barry Baker, Billy Easton, Tossolini, etc.

I'm sure McNally and Swauger are the local hot shots where they race, but what have you seen from them on a bigger scale lately?

If you are not racing full time like the above mentioned guys, you are not playing in their league.
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Old 07-06-2002, 08:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by fraz


That track is way too big for sedans IMO and Mugen just doesn't have the right internal gearing for a track of that size. Unless Mugen comes out with new pulleys and belts, I don't see it happening. I barely have enough gear to pull the Silver Bowl in Vegas with the dual sweeper configuration. And the track in Ohio is bigger!

man that's the most ridiculous argument I've heard in a long time. Not to be a j_ck_ss, but it sounds like to me you just said:

mugen internal gearng keeps it from being competitive on large tracks, therefore

that AWESOME track at nats in Ohio is too big for sedans!



I personally can't wait to get on that track and I've read from several of the top racers (that have raced all over the world) that the track was one of the best they've EVER raced on.
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Old 07-06-2002, 11:56 AM   #8
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The internal gearing problem is a fact not to mention you completely reworded what I said so you are being a bit of an a$$! I have raced sedans on many big tracks at National level events and I think the dual sweeper config at Vegas is getting to the ridiculous level of track size for this class. They are designed for parking lot racing and not for super speedways. The faster sedans go the less stable they are because of the sedan body aerodynamics and tiny tires so my "too big" argument has nothing to do with the gearing of one car manufacturer.

Stefan, as for Mikey, have any of you ever seen him drive? I have seen him kick Ralphie's butt a few times. Mikey has National and World championships under his belt and is every bit as good as the others you mentioned. I have been to many National level events and seen Robbie and Brandon put down lots of fast laps too so I wouldn't coun't them out. I know that Mikey could beat Ralphie, Barry, Billy, or Chris at any National level event and they all know it too, just ask them.
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Old 07-06-2002, 06:39 PM   #9
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Default Mugen USA sucks, period

Ok, here is my opinion in full:

Mugen USA sucks. We don't get ANY support or info from the team regarding setups for our cars, NOTHING.
There website is all about overprized spare parts and some stuff for the buggy.

If they were serious about what they are doing, they would have checked out the track a while before the race like everybody else.
At that point the would have figured out if they had a gearing problem and took care of it.
How liong do you think it would take them to produce smaller spur gears? Pinions are available, so they only needed smaller spur gears.
I betcha that if Kenji Osaka would have raced there, the ca would have been perfect for the track.
It's just like Yokomo, great base in Japan, but the US subsidiary sucks big time.

Now you can start flaming me
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Old 07-06-2002, 06:43 PM   #10
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I think Mugen had other problems besides gearing. Basically, it just wasn't their day. Sometimes things just happen.

Now, having said that & I'm not making excuses or taking sides, the MTX-2 does indeed have a gearing issue. I sent several emails to Mugen regarding this issue when I first bought my car over 2 years ago. They basically told me the car was designed for 1/10 tracks, not 1/8th. I occasionally raced at a track designed for 1/8 th scale cars. The track had a 350ft backstretch that absolutely killed my MTX-2. I ran out of gear WAAAY early. Now I admit so did most of the other 1/10 sedans, but the MTX's peaked much earlier than the RS4's and Impulse's. The best final drive ratio using "optional" MTX gearing is 5.16 using 21/43 2nd gearing. If you go aftermarket, there are some spurs and pinions that will let you get a 4.63 using 23/42 2nd gearing. Compared to the RS4 that can be easily outfitted with "optional" 20/37 2nd gearing that yeilds a FDR of 3.97. While the MTX will out handle the RS4 through the infield, there is no way to keep up in an all out drag race. If the RS4 gets enough distance out running it down the backstretch, it's very hard for the MTX to regain that ground. I can't remember off the top of my head what FDR are available for the Impulse, but it was better than the MTX also. This was the days before the GT-4, VoneR, OB4, etc. If anyone knows the FDRs for those cars, we could do a better comparison of what's on the market today.
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Old 07-06-2002, 07:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by fraz
The internal gearing problem is a fact not to mention you completely reworded what I said so you are being a bit of an a$$

well I was hoping you didnt take it that way.

Bottom line is I've devoured posts on many a board about the nats and you are the only person I've read about complaining about the track size in ohio - even people who didn't go are geeked about going. If they hadn't closed signups they easily could have had twice the racers they had come out.

IF mugen has gearing issues that doesn't mean 1/10 scale cars have some arbitrary track size limit determined by yours truly, it means mugen needs to produce the proper parts to compete with other pro cars on ANY track.


Last edited by patelladragger; 07-07-2002 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 07-07-2002, 12:43 AM   #12
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V One R has lowest final gearing of 5.05 with 22/44.

I do think it probably would have run out of gears on that big track. Interestingly the top 3 cars all were running serpent gearing.
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Old 07-07-2002, 01:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by tekrsq
I think Mugen had other problems besides gearing. Basically, it just wasn't their day. Sometimes things just happen.

Now, having said that & I'm not making excuses or taking sides, the MTX-2 does indeed have a gearing issue. I sent several emails to Mugen regarding this issue when I first bought my car over 2 years ago. They basically told me the car was designed for 1/10 tracks, not 1/8th. I occasionally raced at a track designed for 1/8 th scale cars. The track had a 350ft backstretch that absolutely killed my MTX-2. I ran out of gear WAAAY early. Now I admit so did most of the other 1/10 sedans, but the MTX's peaked much earlier than the RS4's and Impulse's. The best final drive ratio using "optional" MTX gearing is 5.16 using 21/43 2nd gearing. If you go aftermarket, there are some spurs and pinions that will let you get a 4.63 using 23/42 2nd gearing. Compared to the RS4 that can be easily outfitted with "optional" 20/37 2nd gearing that yeilds a FDR of 3.97. While the MTX will out handle the RS4 through the infield, there is no way to keep up in an all out drag race. If the RS4 gets enough distance out running it down the backstretch, it's very hard for the MTX to regain that ground. I can't remember off the top of my head what FDR are available for the Impulse, but it was better than the MTX also. This was the days before the GT-4, VoneR, OB4, etc. If anyone knows the FDRs for those cars, we could do a better comparison of what's on the market today.
The MTX can go as low as 4.938 using Mugen 22T pinion and Mugen 43 spur. If AMGRacer is correct, then techinically speaking the Mugen has a better final drive ration then the V-One-R. Not to mention to optional 42 Spur which will lower the ration even further. The 'gearing' issue quiet simply isn't an issue.

We race at a 1/8th track (last years WC 1/8th track) down here in Sydney, Mugen MTX holds the 5min Qualify Record, 10min Qualify Record, 30min Main record and the fastest indiviual lap time. This is home to national events, state titles and is the premium track down here in Australia.

It really comes down to certain tracks suit certian chassis. You'll always notice a particular brand always dominates or does considerable better then others at different tracks. Like last years World Championship result where Mugen finished 1-2-3 at our track, its younger brother seems to dominate on this track as well.

Incase you wanna see big tracks, here is a pic :

http://members.optushome.com.au/muge...ebank/best.jpg
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Old 07-07-2002, 02:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Novarossi


The MTX can go as low as 4.938 using Mugen 22T pinion and Mugen 43 spur. If AMGRacer is correct, then techinically speaking the Mugen has a better final drive ration then the V-One-R. Not to mention to optional 42 Spur which will lower the ration even further. The 'gearing' issue quiet simply isn't an issue.

We race at a 1/8th track (last years WC 1/8th track) down here in Sydney, Mugen MTX holds the 5min Qualify Record, 10min Qualify Record, 30min Main record and the fastest indiviual lap time. This is home to national events, state titles and is the premium track down here in Australia.

It really comes down to certain tracks suit certian chassis. You'll always notice a particular brand always dominates or does considerable better then others at different tracks. Like last years World Championship result where Mugen finished 1-2-3 at our track, its younger brother seems to dominate on this track as well.

Incase you wanna see big tracks, here is a pic :

http://members.optushome.com.au/muge...ebank/best.jpg
Another interesting fact is that the V1R uses the same gearing as the Fantom, and has almost identical internal ratio. This car seems competitive enough on 1/8th tracks. Obviously the .21 revs harder but still............
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Old 07-07-2002, 02:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer


Another interesting fact is that the V1R uses the same gearing as the Fantom, and has almost identical internal ratio. This car seems competitive enough on 1/8th tracks. Obviously the .21 revs harder but still............
Same gearing yes, but I doubt it runs the same drivetrain gearing
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