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Old 04-29-2012, 06:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by mikemyers View Post
Actually, the correct number was 4:
OK. So why do we limit 1/10 Sedan to 4 ports. Does ROAR check every motor? No. They don't.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:09 PM   #32
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and in a sense, that's what I'm talking about - simple.... VERY simple....

Remember my post a ways back; where EXHAUST was mentioned???? How well is that 9 port hyper balanced on road engine going to work with the klunky Kyosho $29.00 exhaust??? I doubt as well as the hunka' hunka' junka' Kyosho engine that comes with the IGT....

But seriously, since a lot wanna' play at a bit higher dollar playing field than many of us would prefer - why not rubber stamp the $280.00 engine max, hope that's enforceable and place that klunky Kyosho exhaust down stream of it and hope that a 'good' tune can be attained????

I suppose that some form of funky intake could be designed/implemented/added on but gosh, this is a GREAT speed limiter, costs almost nothing (so the OFNA and Serpent guys don't bitch about price) and probably will contribute more to 'horsepower parity' than any other factor... at a simple and reasonable to tech quickly - I can hear Z now - Yup, crappy exhaust, move forward.... Yup, crappy exhaust, move forward - good grief, the sound is probably distinct enough that most could tech from the side lines - something like: Yup, sounds like poop - that's legal.... Yup, sounds like poop warmed over - move ahead.... Wooops!?!? - sounds GOOD - CHEATER - put your car over here....

Seriously, I hate that exhaust as much as the next guy BUT, if the solution could be THAT simple, who would care????



Ain't it PURDY??? AND, I was wrong - A Main offers it (probably includes and OFNA and certainly a Serpent (after they already spent that much money!) discount) for $12.99...... Gosh, even the most over extended r/c racer couldn't complain about THAT... or could they????

Just a few thoughts guys; is everyone really looking in the right place to establish vehicular parity???? Think about it....
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:34 PM   #33
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Interesting reading, if you believe people will follow the rules that aren't checked...

http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2011...odys-cheating/

I'm staying out of that discussion. You're right, ROAR doesn't check every engine, just like years ago, nobody checked every motor or battery. Of course back then, too many people thought nothing of "twisting" on the can, to change the timing, and there were still others who put fake battery wraps over their illegal batteries to make them appear legal. I suspect that "spec rules" and "tech inspections" go together, and the first is worthless without the other......
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:34 PM   #34
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Interesting reading, if you believe people will follow the rules that aren't checked...

http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2011...odys-cheating/

I'm staying out of that discussion. You're right, ROAR doesn't check every engine, just like years ago, nobody checked every motor or battery. Of course back then, too many people thought nothing of "twisting" on the can, to change the timing, and there were still others who put fake battery wraps over their illegal batteries to make them appear legal. I suspect that "spec rules" and "tech inspections" go together, and the first is worthless without the other......
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:23 PM   #35
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I just believe that if there is a port limit, the vast majority will be legal. As stated in that article, those who are cheating probably are not winning anyway.

Why not just limit the carb inlet size and the exhaust stinger size. Quick and easy to check.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:50 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z View Post
I just believe that if there is a port limit, the vast majority will be legal. As stated in that article, those who are cheating probably are not winning anyway.

Why not just limit the carb inlet size and the exhaust stinger size. Quick and easy to check.
Yes but all you need is the intake. Limit intake to 7.0 or 7.5mm. Easy to tech, great equalizer and compatible with all engines. You can even combine it with the price limit ($280) to have a more complete control over the engines.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:31 AM   #37
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You're kidding, right??? Adjustable clutches???? Reliability??? OMG!!!
I've watched experienced, seasoned racers waste entire weekends trying to find the sweet spot in these clutches only to have the track/weather/whatever change and they were back to square clutches....

Help this poor 'ol midwesterner understand how/why/when these clutches would be better in an IGT/GT8/buggy based on road car..... BUT, remember this, you're talking to a guy who runs a composite 2 shoe and a 'blue spring' on his Kyosho, so PLEASE keep it simple - 'cause that is a LOT of what I like about this class!

one word....buku....
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:47 AM   #38
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Default Revised rules including all the recent suggestions

Revised list, including all the recent suggestions
(rules with " __________" need suggested values)

=================================================
PROPOSED ROAR RULES FOR THE 1/8 GT CLASS
chassis: shaft driven, no belts
diffs: standard gear diffs only
body: any commercially available GT style body (not Lola style bodies)
body: rear of body can not be completely cut out
body: rear windows can be completely cut out
body: side front windows can be completely cut out.
body: The engine’s cooling head fins can not be exposed from top or sides of body.
body: front winshield cutout - 70mm maximum
wings: wings and spoilers: allowed
tires: any commercially available rubber tires (no foam tires)
tires: must fit completely under the car body (no add-on wheel flares)
tire inserts: any insert is OK
tires: no width limitation
engine: any .28 or smaller style engine, any carb
engine: must be commercially available
clutch: Offroad style non-adjustable 2, 3, or 4 shoe clutch (no axial clutches)
pipe: any pipe
Fuel Capacity: 150cc maximum
intake: INS box required
Electronics: No electronic stability control allowed
Electronics: No electronic aids (D-Box, etc.)
weight: minimum weight 3500 grams
Car length, maximum: __________
Car width, maximum: __________
Car height, maximum (suspension fully compressed) __________
Wheelbase: maximum __________
Wheelbase: minimum __________
ELECTRIC - speed control - use existing ROAR rules
ELECTRIC - battery - use existing ROAR rules
Fuel nitro content: open




=================================================
OPTIONAL CLASS RULES FOR THE 1/8 GT CLASS (select as desired)
chassis: 1/7 scale - allowed
chassis: allows kickup or flat,
chassis: only 'kickup' or only 'flat'
wings: built for the body, and attached to body,
wings: no buggy style wings.
engine: must be available from mail order shops for under (SET PRICE HERE) w/o tax __________
engine: limited to a specified number of ports (3, 7, whatever...) __________
engine: Limit intake to 7.0 or 7.5mm __________
engine: allow axial (Centax style) clutches
engine: only stock carb allowed
Traction: Liquid traction additives or rubber enhancment chemicals NOT permitted.
the track/club/series can specify a specific brand of fuel, car, tires, engine, etc.
Tires: width limitation __________
Fuel limitations on nitro content? __________



Rather than discuss something specific here, such as the number of ports, just leave it up to each club, series, or group to set as they see fit.

It would be helpful if someone can suggest additional values for those items with the " __________" after the wording.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desotoracing View Post
Yes but all you need is the intake. Limit intake to 7.0 or 7.5mm. Easy to tech, great equalizer and compatible with all engines. You can even combine it with the price limit ($280) to have a more complete control over the engines.
I think you have a good point here - up to the thought that I am not 100% sure that ALL engines which have been mentioned here have replaceable venturis..... I know Nova Rossi does and but I'm not sure of the others... including the lower shelf OS....

Does someone have more information???

With respect to the pipe idea that I tossed on the table - it's HIGHLY unlikely that ROAR would require a product that is only made by one manufacturer. In the world that governing bodies live in it's pretty much impossible to 'endorse' or 'require' a product only made by one manufacturer. It would work great for series races or for any club who has a few individuals who are winning all the time but I strongly doubt that it will fly from the national sanctioning body.

Carb restrictors are possibly as wise IF they will work on all carbs! And, I like the STOCK CARB rule - no Nova Rossi carbs on Axial engines, ect. As we all know, this is effectively the same thing as the pipe reqirement but working on the other end of the engine! I like it Mr. DeSoto! Implementation might be a bit more complicated simply because there are (or can be) various carbs available within a given engine manufacturer's line up - so someoone with a great deal of knowledge spanning over all considered engine manufacturers would need to assemble this infomration.

More random early morning thoughts....
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:01 AM   #40
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This thread is getting a bit off topic, which I guess is what happens to all threads. Anyway, I got involved in email discussions about the discussions here, and was asked if I was going to stick around and follow through on what we're talking about.

The only purpose of this thread is to compile a listing of all the possible rules for 1/8 GT racing. Some of the rules are very general, and some of them are "spec" rules.

If this is done correctly, any class of GT racing created by anyone will be a sub-set of those rules (and if they have something that isn't included in the above rules, any one of you can add it, to keep things current).

In this thread, you don't really need to have a long discussion about pipes, or intake manifold dimensions, or anything similar - just list it under the second heading as "exhaust pipe requirements", "stinger size", "intake manifold dimension", etc.

An "open" class could simply omit all the rules in that second group, and only include the first group of rules.

A "spec" class can include as many of the spec rules as desired, with the appropriate values as decided by the group.

I'll re-post the list in a few minutes, with a few additions that people have suggested....
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:32 AM   #41
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Default ALL GT Rules as of 5/1/2012

Basic rules that could be applied to a ROAR 1/8 GT Class:
Use additional rules from the second section for "spec" racing


=================================================
OPEN RULES FOR THE 1/8 GT CLASS
specifications: shaft driven, no belts
specifications: standard gear diffs only
specifications: car length, maximum: __________
specifications: car width, maximum: __________
specifications: car height, maximum (suspension fully compressed) __________
specifications: wheelbase: maximum __________
specifications: wheelbase: minimum __________
specifications: fuel capacity: 150cc maximum
specifications: weight: minimum weight 3500 grams
specifications: fuel nitro content: open

body: any commercially available GT style body (not Lola style bodies)
body: rear of body can not be completely cut out (needs to specify how much)
body: rear windows can be completely cut out
body: side front windows can be completely cut out.
body: The engine’s cooling head fins can not be exposed from top or sides of body.
body: front winshield cutout - 70mm maximum
body: wings and spoilers: allowed

tires: any commercially available rubber tires (no foam tires)
tires: must fit completely under the car body (no add-on wheel flares)
tires: any tire insert

engine: any .28 or smaller style engine
engine: any carb
engine: intake port size - open
engine: must be commercially available
engine: any exhaust pipe,
engine: any stinger diameter
engine: Offroad style non-adjustable 2, 3, or 4 shoe clutch (no axial clutches)
engine: INS box intake silencer required

Electronics: No electronic stability control allowed
Electronics: No electronic aids (D-Box, etc.)

electric class speed control - use existing ROAR rules
electric class: battery - use existing ROAR rules





=================================================
ADDITIONAL SPEC RULES FOR 1/8 GT CLASS (select as desired)
specifications: only 'kickup' chassis allowed
specifications: only 'flat' chassis allowed
specifications: 1/7 scale also allowed?
specifications: Fuel nitro content maximum _________

body: wings built for the body,
body: wings must be attached to body,
body: no buggy style wings

tires: tire width limited to __________
tires: disallowed - liquid traction additives or rubber enhancment chemicals

engine: must be available from mail order shops for under $ __________ w/o tax
engine: maximum engine ports __________.
engine: only stock carb allowed
engine: maximum intake diameter ___________

controlled for spec racing:
the track, club, or series can specify a specific fuel
the track, club, or series can specify a specific car
the track, club, or series can specify a specific tire
the track, club, or series can specify a specific engine
the track, club, or series can specify a specific battery
the track, club, or series can specify a specific motor





Could people involved in this discussion please suggest values for those items listed as ________ ? Thanks!
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:06 AM   #42
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I think I would like to see 4-6 engines, with their brand name and model number listed on the rule and call them out these are the ONLY legal engine to be used.

If most ppl think that BRAND X engine is the best for large floating track, go buy that engine...brand Y engine is best for small tight track, go buy that one...only have 4-6 engines to look at. And it will be easy to spec, easy to tech and we all know these 4-6 engines are very similar in price and similar in performance.

Racing rule is all about FAIR racing (I actually wish it will be only 1 motor, 1 tires, then open bodies and open chassis)...but it is also about UNFAIR (limited to those brand who is qualified as the spec engine, tires and bodies). But someone need to draw the line, might as well call out the engine instead of giving a price.

I really think these PORTS are getting out of control....7 ports, next year may be 9 ports...turbo plugs, crazy....

How much of a different of racing GT now compare to racing 1/8th ON ROAD? Price wise, they are getting close.....
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:18 PM   #43
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ok here is what i have found measuring my gtp gtp2-e and 2 different buggies wheel base 310-330 wheel base width was 311-315 now 3 different bodies lenght 577-610 and widths from 317 to 330

i did measure the wheel base on one truggy chassis wheel base on that was 355

bodies
PF 8 mc laren and viper measured from nose to trailing edge of wing these are all used so numbers may vairy
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:35 PM   #44
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Are there any existing rules I'm not aware of? Do we have anything specified for the following? I'll put your numbers in for now, but I'd much rather be copying rules that already exist, than creating new ones. Maybe Jeff and someone from the new board can suggest the dimensions that are already being used, or are the numbers below already correct?

If current cars and parts exceed the following dimensions, the dimensions should be changed to reflect what people are already doing.


specifications: car length, maximum: 610 mm
specifications: car width, maximum: 330 mm
specifications: car height, maximum (suspension fully compressed) __________
specifications: wheelbase: maximum 310 mm
specifications: wheelbase: minimum 330 mm
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:38 PM   #45
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The wheelbase maximum should be 380mm, this is the wheel base of the Ofna DM1 car.
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