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Old 08-13-2012, 05:59 PM   #496
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thanks, so my mbx6 will be fine for any race
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:29 PM   #497
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Any GT specific chassis/buggy based car, shaft driven.

So any 1/8 buggy conversion.

Kyosho Inferno GT1/GT2
Ofna DM1/DM1 Spec, GTP, Hyper 1/7
Team C GT8/GT8L
Serpent Cobra GT
Actually, the group that was put together to recomend rules, has never posted anything anywhere ....(could this be done, so we know what was sent to ROAR)...... so what is legal is set by the track for thier series or event.

The Team C car was not legal for the Byrons race, as it has a flat chassis. So until the rules are posted, accepted we are all just guessing.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #498
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If you don't use the flat chassis that has been made for the conversion, ......IF the flat chassis rule is still inforce.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:41 PM   #499
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If you want to keep things simple and negate the advantage of expensive on road engines, why not just do three things? 1 - Keep the minimum weight up high enough that you need a torquier engine to move the car. 2 - Don't let the cars get too much traction - keep the rear tire width the same as the front. 3 - Make everyone run a 6.5mm (or 7.0) round carb restrictor. That will effectively limit the hp/rpm advantage the onroad engines by choking them off.

What we don't want is having to do engine teardowns and comparing pictures of engines to what the tech inspector is seeing. Even dollar limits are a slippery slope. Let everyone run what they brung and choke em down, take away the grip, and keep them at a reasonable weight.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:48 AM   #500
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Here are 3 statements I found made about the GT8 class. Statements like these are very commonly found and also IMO some of the biggest leading fallacies told about the GT8 class.

I think you should remember what the class was created for and if you want to go super fast than race regular 1/8th scale 4wd the ultimate in RC racing.

the IGT class was designed for entry level racers to get onto the hobby and not spend a ton of money and be competive if you don't like the rules run 1/8 scale you can run what you want.

This IGT class is designed for the novice to build up his skills so they can move up to a better class.


I will agree 1/8 is the bad ass of RC but I don’t see why the constant comparison?

Also I missed the memo that IGT was purpose built for the novice. Anything that’s durable can be labeled for the novice but this is purely a coincidence.



Guess I missed what this class was created for. I thought the GT8 class was made to have Fun Racing while competing with others.

Most all the Top Drivers in GT8 that I know personally have all the skills to run TC and 1/8 but choose to run GT8 because we like it BETTER.

The rule makers using the excuse that the GT8 class is the “novice class” is just not true but is what they continue to use as to why they make these lame rules.



Back to my point

Quality Italian engines & Speed was never the issue or the problem, we the GT8 community know how to make these cars go fast. I think the engine discussions are debated so vigorously because most of us want the freedom to run what we want especially since many of us own Nova’s and other Italian engines that are clearly so much Superior in quality and that is very high on the got to finish to win mentality list.

Please don’t tell me how great the 200 dollar engines are I don’t want to hear any of it, not even a little.

As for not running the new guy off with higher engine prices really isn’t that hard. Most new RC racers don’t have the skills yet for a high power engine so we the older GT8 community have a obligation to teach slower is faster until the training wheels come off. We all paid our dues in this area why are we trying to reinvent the learning process?

I also see this $500.00 -$600.00-$700.00 dollar engine talk. I really don’t know what that’s all about but once in a while I see some WildE Coyote Super Genius with a flash PTS in his GT8 car, but honestly if he has more money than brains I say more power to him, some people have to learn the hard way that they can’t buy a good finish but it’s hilarious watching them try.. Hopefully when they get tired of getting there ass kicked they sell me there 700 dollar engine for 200 if they didn’t kill it.



Comparing this class to electric is apples and bowling ball’s let’s not go there, they don’t compare.

As to making this class attractive to new people, I think it already does that just by the many spectators that ask all the questions that we are all so familiar with. Everyone including the RC snobs who laughed at this class when we first came on the scene are whistling a new tune now especially since “Serpent” has made a car. (APPLAUSE TO SERPENT) & Paulo who has done a fantastic job kicking every ones ass.




Quick statement and question & answer

Statement -- GT8 cars are converted/modified shaft drive buggy’s

Question – What is one of the most popular engines used in buggy’s today?

One of many Popular Answers – Novarossi Bonito

I bet the Bonito will not be on the roar list for GT.

That’s BS, it’s a great Engine and worthy of the $350.00 list price & is a great GT engine. Just a small example of the rule that will screw the GT class




This class proved without a shadow of a doubt that it has stood the test of time because roar has been promising rules for a LONG time and we only got bigger. Very obvious many of us like this class BETTER.

I would like to make this statement and I believe many of my fellow racers agree. We race this class because we LIKE IT BETTER, NOT BECAUSE WE CANT AFFORD 1/8 or other classes, this class has an appeal other classes don’t have.

Very obvious to me that this class has been labeled the “novice” class of nitro RC and if the GT8 community does not step up that label will just get bigger.

This thread had nominated a GT8 National Series Board of Racers how about some noise from them?

I remember someone telling roar years ago that doing nothing was still very loud. I hope this GT8 National Series Board of Racers is louder.

1 thing I will agree with is that if a certain track has its own rules then when in Rome.... but as a general rule I think my thoughts are clear with many of my fellow racers lets stay OPEN




.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:52 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by Gary NJ View Post
If you want to keep things simple and negate the advantage of expensive on road engines, why not just do three things? 1 - Keep the minimum weight up high enough that you need a torquier engine to move the car. 2 - Don't let the cars get too much traction - keep the rear tire width the same as the front. 3 - Make everyone run a 6.5mm (or 7.0) round carb restrictor. That will effectively limit the hp/rpm advantage the onroad engines by choking them off.

What we don't want is having to do engine teardowns and comparing pictures of engines to what the tech inspector is seeing. Even dollar limits are a slippery slope. Let everyone run what they brung and choke em down, take away the grip, and keep them at a reasonable weight.
Gary you have some good points...

Mr. Desoto had said something very similar about carb restrictors.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:03 AM   #502
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I understand what most are saying but I think that when you say open engine in this class you will start to soon see it dye. Part of the appeal with this class initially was running realistic bodies and racing with position changes and all of the fun things about racing, not just womping on the next guy with no real experience. At most tracks lets face it, there are not enough people to split classes into advanced and novice, it will get sorted out in the mains anyway. I just think that open engines is just for the guys who want to do it there own way, and while there is nothing really wrong with that I think you should remember what the class was created for and if you want to go super fast than race regular 1/8th scale 4wd the ultimate in rc racing.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:47 AM   #503
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Ok I have been out of the loop for a month or so with family outings..
Guys, guys.... most of us spoke to these same issues at the race at TZ....

I got some great insight from many great racers with years upon years of RC experience. At the end of the day we all want the class to grow and be fun for all that participate.
• We all agreed we need the class to grow
• We all agreed this was going to be an affordable class to get more folks into on-road
• We would love for the off-road crowd to come join in our reindeer games
o Thus the conversions kits and off-road style engines.
• I recognize and respect all the points of view and thoughts… I think it is great to know everyone has a passion for the class!
• We all wanted ROAR to step in and create a sanctioned class for us…. They are doing it

I agree that we want to keep it simple… But you all know that it’s never really simple...

I personally would like to see the motor rule be limited to an off-road style motor...

I ran the TZ race with a 2 year old DM1with all the original diff lubes and bearings with only 2 mods to the chassis...1) Carbon servo tray 2) an aluminum lower hinge pin carrier on the front. I used a Nova Rossi .21 3 port out of the box with a BuKu clutch (they last forever)... I made damn sure everyone knew what I had…. Why, to show that an average driver with a small investment can go out and be competitive and HAVE FUN... Yea I got worked by many of the other guys… better drivers, better set ups, and better equipment. Truthfully, I am not sure where I ended up...BUT I made the main!

The point in all of this is that you can get into on-road with a $710.46 investment including a Spectrum sport radio…I even calculated in the paint for the body…Less if you already have offroad stuff and want to try on-road..

***

The Serpent is a wonderful car and the team drivers that were there showed us how to get around the track...I would love to have one!!!
The boys from UT came in force and let the country know they have a strong club with excellent drivers and great sportsman!
Leon took and X-ray and made it very clear that a buggy conversion is lethal!

I met great people and had lots of laughs… REMEMBER we all could use a few more friends… promote the class! Promote each other! Be approachable and help the new guy, or the guy that would like to try RC racing…

At this point I think we should let ROAR do its thing… get us on the map… then we can work with them on rule refinement next year…
THINK!...
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:02 AM   #504
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Damn it Leon!
All Good points... BUT
Can we wait til the ROAR rules come out before we get too wound up...
Again!.. Let's get on the Map!... then work together.. IF the motor rules totaly suck.. GT8 as a Group can petition ROAR.. and we can revist the motor rule..

Does that sound resonable?

IMO...
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:35 AM   #505
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GT8 National Series Board of Racers had provided Clete Landefeld the final rules to present to the ROAR. The decision on the engine rule is to keep it OPEN(after numerous discussions from GT8 racers around the nation). Here is why:

The weight (least 3500 grams) and design of the GT8 cars (shaft-driven

buggy based onroad vehicle on rubber tires) limit what ALL ENGINES can do.

High dollar onroad engines lack torque for these heavy cars so racers will need to gear low to KEEP up with cheaper .28 or .21 offroad engines(that have more torque) around the infields of the track.

Cheaper .28 or .21 offroad engines will need to gear taller to keep up with the onroad engine's mid range to high end power on the straight.

There are both PROs and CONs for using either high dollar onroad or cheaper .28 or .21 off road engines so we've decided on OPEN engine rule since there are advantages and disadvantages using any type of .21 or .28 engines.

Again, it all comes down to CAR SETUP and DRIVING to ensure ALL THE POWER gets delivered to the ground without wasting any excessive power from your engines.

The GT8 cars by design(due to its heavy weight and shaft driven) is SLOWER than 1/10 and 1/8 4WD. This class is definitely fast enough to call it an Onroad class. I would strongly encourage ALL onroad racers around the country to help promoting this class and "NOT LOOK DOWN" on this class because these cars are slower on the track. You have to realize these race cars are heavier/shaft-driven and run on RUBBER TIRES, just like 1:1 race cars do. One thing that everyone should agree on is GT8 class is TRULY A FUN class. No matter the car is fast or slow, a racer will still have to DRIVE the car and setup the car to go fast.

The bottomline is everyone would like to see onroad nitro racing to thrive again. Lets help fella racers and bring in more new racers to this great sport we all love (manufacturers/ROAR/racers).

The TRUTH is any QUALITY engines will be competitive in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requirements for the class. And when a new comer or someone thinking about joining the class asks:

Do I need to buy a high dollar engine to win in this class? And the answer will be ABSOLUTELY NOT, any QUALITY engines can win in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requiremtns for the class.

Can I buy a high dollar engine (on or offroad version) because I like the quality from these engines for this GT8 class? And the answer will be ABOLUTELY YES, any QUALITY engines can win in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requirements for the class.

PLEASE LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD TO EVERYONE STARTING NOW.


Andy Liu "Flyin Hawaiian"
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:14 AM   #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman2 View Post
GT8 National Series Board of Racers had provided Clete Landefeld the final rules to present to the ROAR. The decision on the engine rule is to keep it OPEN(after numerous discussions from GT8 racers around the nation). Here is why:

The weight (least 3500 grams) and design of the GT8 cars (shaft-driven

buggy based onroad vehicle on rubber tires) limit what ALL ENGINES can do.

High dollar onroad engines lack torque for these heavy cars so racers will need to gear low to KEEP up with cheaper .28 or .21 offroad engines(that have more torque) around the infields of the track.

Cheaper .28 or .21 offroad engines will need to gear taller to keep up with the onroad engine's mid range to high end power on the straight.

There are both PROs and CONs for using either high dollar onroad or cheaper .28 or .21 off road engines so we've decided on OPEN engine rule since there are advantages and disadvantages using any type of .21 or .28 engines.

Again, it all comes down to CAR SETUP and DRIVING to ensure ALL THE POWER gets delivered to the ground without wasting any excessive power from your engines.

The GT8 cars by design(due to its heavy weight and shaft driven) is SLOWER than 1/10 and 1/8 4WD. This class is definitely fast enough to call it an Onroad class. I would strongly encourage ALL onroad racers around the country to help promoting this class and "NOT LOOK DOWN" on this class because these cars are slower on the track. You have to realize these race cars are heavier/shaft-driven and run on RUBBER TIRES, just like 1:1 race cars do. One thing that everyone should agree on is GT8 class is TRULY A FUN class. No matter the car is fast or slow, a racer will still have to DRIVE the car and setup the car to go fast.

The bottomline is everyone would like to see onroad nitro racing to thrive again. Lets help fella racers and bring in more new racers to this great sport we all love (manufacturers/ROAR/racers).

The TRUTH is any QUALITY engines will be competitive in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requirements for the class. And when a new comer or someone thinking about joining the class asks:

Do I need to buy a high dollar engine to win in this class? And the answer will be ABSOLUTELY NOT, any QUALITY engines can win in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requiremtns for the class.

Can I buy a high dollar engine (on or offroad version) because I like the quality from these engines for this GT8 class? And the answer will be ABOLUTELY YES, any QUALITY engines can win in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requirements for the class.

PLEASE LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD TO EVERYONE STARTING NOW.


Andy Liu "Flyin Hawaiian"
BOOO YAAHHH!....
Well said Andy..
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:05 PM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
Damn it Leon!
All Good points... BUT
Can we wait til the ROAR rules come out before we get too wound up...
Again!.. Let's get on the Map!... then work together.. IF the motor rules totaly suck.. GT8 as a Group can petition ROAR.. and we can revist the motor rule..

Does that sound resonable?

IMO...
I didn’t realize I was being unreasonable. I was just pointing out some facts that people discuss in the pits at every race but for some reason these discussions become taboo on the forums.

Clete did u read the "roar" quote a few pages back?

I see a large Candy Coated Turd that is going to be freely given out with hours and hours of thought of the right cocktail to help swallow it with. Hope I am wrong


Andy, Thanks for the great response about the engines. You obviously took time and effort into expressing your thoughts and your experiences for this class. Hope you are not the only nominated person to shake a branch

That’s why people like you are Nominated in said position. Keep up the great work on and off the track


Hope for the best, let’s all hurry up and wait

BOOOOOO YAAAAAH



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Old 08-14-2012, 01:58 PM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman2 View Post
GT8 National Series Board of Racers had provided Clete Landefeld the final rules to present to the ROAR. The decision on the engine rule is to keep it OPEN(after numerous discussions from GT8 racers around the nation). Here is why:

The weight (least 3500 grams) and design of the GT8 cars (shaft-driven

buggy based onroad vehicle on rubber tires) limit what ALL ENGINES can do.

High dollar onroad engines lack torque for these heavy cars so racers will need to gear low to KEEP up with cheaper .28 or .21 offroad engines(that have more torque) around the infields of the track.

Cheaper .28 or .21 offroad engines will need to gear taller to keep up with the onroad engine's mid range to high end power on the straight.

There are both PROs and CONs for using either high dollar onroad or cheaper .28 or .21 off road engines so we've decided on OPEN engine rule since there are advantages and disadvantages using any type of .21 or .28 engines.

Again, it all comes down to CAR SETUP and DRIVING to ensure ALL THE POWER gets delivered to the ground without wasting any excessive power from your engines.

The GT8 cars by design(due to its heavy weight and shaft driven) is SLOWER than 1/10 and 1/8 4WD. This class is definitely fast enough to call it an Onroad class. I would strongly encourage ALL onroad racers around the country to help promoting this class and "NOT LOOK DOWN" on this class because these cars are slower on the track. You have to realize these race cars are heavier/shaft-driven and run on RUBBER TIRES, just like 1:1 race cars do. One thing that everyone should agree on is GT8 class is TRULY A FUN class. No matter the car is fast or slow, a racer will still have to DRIVE the car and setup the car to go fast.

The bottomline is everyone would like to see onroad nitro racing to thrive again. Lets help fella racers and bring in more new racers to this great sport we all love (manufacturers/ROAR/racers).

The TRUTH is any QUALITY engines will be competitive in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requirements for the class. And when a new comer or someone thinking about joining the class asks:

Do I need to buy a high dollar engine to win in this class? And the answer will be ABSOLUTELY NOT, any QUALITY engines can win in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requiremtns for the class.

Can I buy a high dollar engine (on or offroad version) because I like the quality from these engines for this GT8 class? And the answer will be ABOLUTELY YES, any QUALITY engines can win in the GT8 class regardless the price tag due to cars weight and overall design requirements for the class.

PLEASE LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD TO EVERYONE STARTING NOW.


Andy Liu "Flyin Hawaiian"
Quote:
Originally Posted by *1speedy View Post
I didn’t realize I was being unreasonable. I was just pointing out some facts that people discuss in the pits at every race but for some reason these discussions become taboo on the forums.

Clete did u read the "roar" quote a few pages back?

I see a large Candy Coated Turd that is going to be freely given out with hours and hours of thought of the right cocktail to help swallow it with. Hope I am wrong


Andy, Thanks for the great response about the engines. You obviously took time and effort into expressing your thoughts and your experiences for this class. Hope you are not the only nominated person to shake a branch

That’s why people like you are Nominated in said position. Keep up the great work on and off the track


Hope for the best, let’s all hurry up and wait

BOOOOOO YAAAAAH



.
Nope.. I have not seen it..
And I did not mean you were being unresonable. You ass buster!
I have been off line for quite a while.. Clearly I need to go a look back thru the thread!!! .... My over all thought was to see what ROAR came up with.. so.. again.. I will look back and see.
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:12 PM   #509
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Jim, I can get you the rules with the exception of the engine specifications, and the engines that are approved. That's the the last part, and the most detailed, that still needs to be completed. The dollar figure has been remotely effective, but it excludes higher quality engines that would also qualify performance-wise. We're looking to have a level playing field as far as performance, and the dollar figure isn't the proper solution. The engine rule will ultimately have set specifications, and the approved engines will be listed in the forum, with all the internals photographed in detail so anyone can log in at any time and know what the internals should look like, in the event there's any dispute. This is the part of the rules that's not finished yet, but I think I can get you the rest of the rules within this week. I'm going to be at the electric nats, so time may run short, but I'm pushing to have them ready for you.

Uh.... Not in stone yet guys... keep this in mind...
So with that said, lets hope as a group with constructive critisim and thought we can work together with ROAR to finalize a good rule that works for the masses...
SO keep the ideas coming but be proactive to create a solution..Like Andy!!!
Well done and thank you Andy.. Always a class act...
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:03 PM   #510
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I am new to GT racing this year because a friend said "you have to try this" and he was kind enough to supply everything I needed to run. Good friend and outstanding rc driver/enthusiast. I have recently purchased my own kit, motor, etc. because I really like running this class.

A set of ROAR rules, specific engines listed with a variety of performance and consequently price ranges, gives guidance to the beginners and options for the experienced racers for ROAR sanctioned events. Most guys have more than one engine and the one we are running this year will eventually wear out and need to be replaced before the next (ROAR) schedule anyway.

I can see where the "price limit" rule has it's flaws and would need to be updated from year to year. This would lead to another waiting game for the next years "approved list" to be published before we could purchase our next engine(s). Who wants that???

OPEN has its place and can be set for certain Races or Series as the directors/racers see fit. As the class grows, roar could add a truly open class for their sanctioned events.

And to enforce "the rules" and govern the "cheaters", at whatever event we may be attending, this guy said it best...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSYDOR View Post
Then add a "claim" rule.
If you suspect someone of cheating- buy their motor from them, at fair market value. That way it will solve the cheating accusations. If they refuse to sell it, then it shouldn't be used anymore for the remainder of the race, because you think they are cheating. Next step would be to tech the motor.
I suspect only the "cheaters" would object to this rule.

The truth of the matter is, there are merely a handful of drivers in the class right now that can out drive the approved kits and engines of today. And putting the "open" power to ground is a challenge for all of us. (But I definitely still want to try!!! )

We must grow into the future or the future will never come!
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Speed Passion....Speed Power....Serpent America/Desoto Racing.
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