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Old 04-19-2012, 01:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by spooky 1 View Post
Clete, thanks for the engine input. I've been thinking B5, but my Nova Rossi treated me very well at the Nats. You're right , I don't want to run the Force. So, it's 3 port then? I still think that is a bummer, but it's your show and I'll comply. We have gone to open class period out here and let times and laps dictate whether you are sportsman or open. Nobody is going crazy on engine costs. We don't do a weight limit, but found that the cars actually handle better between 3400 and 3600 grams.
Spooky ..... .21's are a three port, the B-5 is a 5 port. I'm going to run either the B-5 (which I have a spare if you want) or the 28-T5 for this event.
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:27 PM   #32
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+ 1 like rules. Keep em simple.

Could you post some info on Timezone and your races coming up.. Thanks
This Lives on the Timezone Raceway Park thread....... enjoy
GUS!.. I will be in SLC on Memorial day weekend... are you racing... Should I bring my gear?!
Will be there for World Superbike.. I have a friend racing.

June 2-3, Rose city @ PIR
June 23rd TZRP

July 19th – 22nd 4th annual TZGP

August 4th Rose City Kings Cruz inn
August 18th TZRP

September 8th -9th Rose City @ PIR
September 22nd TZRP

October ???? TZRP End of season endro if the weather permits.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:06 PM   #33
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Default A great GT Race at Delaware Apr/28-29



A great GT Race at Delaware Apr/28-29

Hey GT racers, Kosmic Fuel is throwing a Free race at Blue Diamond in next weekend.
don't let the word "Free" fool you, there will be trophies for GT(from NYC GT Racers) and at least 30 min GT A-main race as well.

also another reason to be there is nationally known GT racers such as Paolo, Rino and Tony Q will be there along with DJ Apolaro for tech tips, seminars and just plain hang outs!

if you live in the East coast, dont miss this one out, this can be one of the biggest GT race ever in the U.S.

sorry for the thread hiking >>official thread for the race
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File Type: pdf kosmic flyer final 2012.pdf (276.8 KB, 94 views)
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:30 PM   #34
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Here are the engine rules for the Heart of America Series, posted yesterday on Rctech:

Due to several motors on the approved list no longer being available, and the increased cost of motors, the motor rules have changed.

For the 2012 season:
Up to .28.
$280 max. As sold by Tower or A Main.
5 Port max.
Or any motor on the 2011 list.


I run in this series, but do not have any controll of the rules or events.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:00 PM   #35
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Agree with BigCat Tx
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:20 PM   #36
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Agreed... at this point the our region needs to get a little deeper in numbers to create this...format

Should we as a national "group" .... argee on a BASE LINE set of rules.. for the Novice and small "Getting Started" Club/Region.. Kinda ..."here is how to grow a class" set of rules ... and then the bigger clubs like Utah... run both...
And when a big event is scheduled .. the organizer can decided on what class/classes work best for the event???

All good information and thoughts guys...
Keep in mind that we are not trying to throw a wrench in any scheduled race or event.. these ideas are for all of us to ponder and maybe etch in stone next year...if ROAR does not get involved...

i like everything i hear.... well get it down to a round table vote and be set for next year

No disrespect intended

I don't think there would be any different rules for each class......(agree on a baseline set of rules which are the same) the beginner class can run anything they want just like the open class. They are all the same cars. Beginners need to choose/learn tire shore just like the rest of us. Having a spec tire of 50 shore doesn't make any difference in cost either. Let the racers all race what they want. Beginner/Sportsman for the non sponsored guys or guys qualifying slower......then the expert/sponsored class. The engine cost is so irrelevant to this entire equation, and it will surely confuse all the new guys thinking they have to have an expensive motor to go fast or win in expert. Not the right impression to give racers IMO. There are a lot of good products out there and the class will continue to evolve just like off road buggy has. Could you imagine trying to have a spec buggy class in 8th scale off road?

And I also agree to let the local clubs try and figure out what drives the most response for the local racers. What racers want in Texas might be different than what racers want in New York or Utah, etc......which is fine as long as folks are coming out to race! Make it work at a local level!

I also agree that we need to group together to have some kind of synergy with larger events......which is ultimately what ROAR rules would accomplish......but the racers need to figure out what is best for the class....and ROAR just needs to jump on board and engage.

I really think with someone like Paolo & Rhino (after meeting and racing with them) things will happen and it will boost the interest for all the racers. They were very positive about the class and are going to travel to most of the big events. Believe me when you see those guys with that new cobra you might be wishing you had a beginner class......lol.

All good stuff.......the GT class will be huge before you know it! Practice now!
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:35 PM   #37
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I love that everyone is supporting the GT class, but I have some overall concerns about dividing the class in the way we are (open/spec).

Dividing the class by a monetary value seems unusual to say the least when it comes to different RC classes. I just want to give my 2cents and see if anyone thinks it makes sense.

At large off road events the classes are subdivided let's say by two categories of drivers... Open or Expert and Sportsman. And in off road the drivers seem to easily be able to determine whether they should be running in open or sportsman. And it is based on ability to drive the car. Meaning the fastest guys will have to run in the open, but the slower guys can still compete and win in the sportsman before they are forced to run open. Has nothing to do with how much the car costs or motor or anything else. The rules are the same for everyone.

With that in mind.....
With the current class structure at some tracks as mentioned above here is what could play out. A bunch of guys that don't have to spend the money on the car can still race in the spec class. But a lot of those guys will be rookies and maybe some that just don't want to spend that much money. But Paolo or any other sponsored driver could buy let's say the ofna 28 stock motor, and that motor would be as fast or faster than his motor in the open class. So to me encouraging guys to come out and race is one thing, but creating a class based on somewhat of a skill level is another. If those rookies could actually be in a class that they have a chance to win in, it would encourage more drivers to come out and race or encourage more to stay.

In other words any other spec class for other class of cars would do so to encourage lesser skilled racers/drivers to come out and win and compete, then when they are good enough, bump up to the open and compete. Having the same car/driver running in two different classes with a different motor only is not really creating another class for lesser skilled drivers. There is no limitation (really) on motor size, just motor value. This also encourages people to think you need a high end on road motor to compete. Which again, I think most of us know that you can be just as fast with a lesser priced motor. The mind frame of money being the factor in order to win is somewhat ridiculous. Paolo could win with any priced motor based on his driving skills and set up skills. Motor is not winning it.

Here in Texas we have one class for GT racing. If we can gain more support and drivers I believe we should create a spec class based on skill like every other class out there. Not money. Once you win in the spec class move up to open.

This could be based on lap times at the track or a certain pace off the top qualifier at any race. Or it could be as simple as if your a sponsored driver you have to run in the open class, and if not your in the sportsman class.

This would give more guys the chance to race more competitively and still win. If all the spec guys are running 27 laps they will all have a better race than if the open guy comes to the spec race and runs 30 laps on them every time. Those other guys are not going to come out and lose every race over and over.

I like the other part of the rules, just not that everyone can drive if they by a cheaper motor. Divide the class by skill of drivers because in this particular case some of the lesser priced .28's can smoke the open .21's and the motor value is really irrelevant. It might not last very long either, but that is not the point. To grow the class we need more racers, and those racers need to have fun, get help from the fast guys (not beat by them) and still be able to win with a goal in mind of getting good enough to run in the open class.
+ 1 like

This is the way I first got into r/c racing. I started in sportsman trying to learn from the experts as much as I could to get faster. It gave me something to work for like going from JV to Varsity.

Last thing you want is to get your ass handed to you by a pro driving the exact same car as you. That would and still makes me feel like crap. LOL

I been saying and posting this "Keep the rules simple, and my the best driver with the best setup Win! Either in Sportsman or Expert. I personally felt really good after winning my 3rd race in sportsman and being congratulated that I was moving up to expert. All the money, hours of practice and frustration trying to get things to work didn't matter anymore and that's probably why I still play with toy rc car to this day. Knowing that I worked hard to get were I am an being able to pass my knowledge to new racers and keeping the hobby going. Hell we spend more time talking and BSing in the pits then on the track.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:37 PM   #38
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Tony......

"Last thing you want is to get your ass handed to you by a pro driving the exact same car as you. That would and still makes me feel like crap. LOL "

Jeeeeeeezze....that's exactly what happens to us each week when we all resume our 'places' behind Spooky1!!!!

I rather look forward to limiting Spooky1 to '3 ports' and follow him until his 'FETZER VALVE' blows up!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clete's approach was refreshing....to try and level the playing field so that some of the newer racer's wouldn't be intimidated. That 5 port engine last year sure outclassed the 3 ports. For the spirit of this race makeup I think 3 ports should be the level inside the $200 envelope. (If not, let me know soon....I will have to clear a 5 port with the 'war dept.'.....budgeted as 'necessary evil')

One of the reasons I chose not to go to Texas was the fact that they only run 'open'. I'm really glad I was not 'lapped traffic' for the pros. Talk about 'junior' and 'VARSITY'!!!!!

If Timezone Grand Prix ever evolves into that.......I'll make it!!!! That's at least another year of race experience for me before I have to pump it up!!

Who knows, maybe ROAR will get wind of this thriving class of racers and get 'em some rules to live by. \>
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:16 PM   #39
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LOL, Spooky is a really good cool guy I'm sure he shares his speed secrets with Yall.
Even if he's ahead of the pack now you keep racing to to get better and remember its still racing anything can happen.

Example the RCPro race 2nd & 3rd were bump ups from the B. Main. Spooky 2nd Daniel 3rd. I qualified 6 in the Amain and broke around the 35min mark, and Rino qualified 2nd and blew the clutch after only 17mins, anything can happen.

I feel we are all heading in the right direction and with more big entry races and positive reinforcement Roar and IFMAR will step in. For now let's just follow the rules to the events and have a good time.
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:09 AM   #40
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No disrespect intended

I don't think there would be any different rules for each class.....


No worries!
I am glad everyone is letting their options fly… it makes for good discussion and helps the class grow!.... that’s what we are all here for… Cheers to you!

What if we maintained the same rules in each class other than a Motor…. Thoughts… I like this because it would sort the fast guys atomaticly... like Mod sedan..on the carpet.. only the top wheels run it.

Again guys.. I am not saying that we rules that we run currently are the end all…
I understand each club will have slight variations for the what works best for them and what helps the class grow locally..
What Might be nice to see IMO, is a set of adopted national rules… so when you head out of town, it’s not a scramble to get your poop in a pile… what motor do I take…am I gonna have to kick Spooky’s ass with a 3 port pull start or do I need to pull it around the track with a string…

Can we get a set of GTNational Series Rules...
The only varient would be if a track was requiring a sponsored spec tire.

Thoughts on this?
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #41
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[B]

Can we get a set of GTNational Series Rules...
The only varient would be if a track was requiring a sponsored spec tire.

Thoughts on this?
Love this! GT style bodies, no lola bodies. 150cc tank. No adjustable/centax style clutches. 2,3,4 shoe buggy style only. 21-28 engines. Rubber tires. Shaft driven buggy based/GT chassis'. If any kind of engine rules, limit to $280. Otherwise just split the classes by lap times after first qualifying.

GTN rules, probably the best thing I've heard for this class.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:38 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
No disrespect intended

I don't think there would be any different rules for each class.....


No worries!
I am glad everyone is letting their options fly… it makes for good discussion and helps the class grow!.... that’s what we are all here for… Cheers to you!
+1

This is time to leave personal interest aside and focus in rules that help promote it everywhere, finding ways to bring fresh blood to onroad not only by people switching from one class to the other like its been happening lately, GT can definitively change that not only for GT but for onroad in general. Im glad to see most of us have the same interest in mind. I met very nice people in Texas with excellent ideas like Andy, Shawn, Tony and some others, real examples of racers looking to promote GT and come to a set of rules that will allow it to grow even faster. Im also happy to see offroad guys looking into GT as well, I honestly think with all I'm seeing in different states and countries GT will turn into the biggest onroad class very soon, Lets make that happen starting by respecting everyones opinion whitout turning it into a personal discussion, one of the reasons why I stop posting things a couple of years ago on another GT forum.

Have a great weekend and for those of you that can make it to the "Kosmic Shoot Out" next weekend, I think it would be a good idea to discuss about rules personally like we did in Texas.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:42 AM   #43
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We will be running a sportsman and expert class here in Utah. Skill and lap times will separate the two classes. We will all run open cars. This does away with all the debate over the cost of engines. I have won the open class here with a spec engine a number of times. The engine isn't going to make the difference. Leaving the engine to a simple .21-.28 size will take all the guess work out of things. Any other rules are as Cole stated , pretty well established everywhere. Tires are at the tracks option if they want to spec them.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:18 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
No disrespect intended

I don't think there would be any different rules for each class.....


No worries!
I am glad everyone is letting their options fly… it makes for good discussion and helps the class grow!.... that’s what we are all here for… Cheers to you!

What if we maintained the same rules in each class other than a Motor…. Thoughts… I like this because it would sort the fast guys atomaticly... like Mod sedan..on the carpet.. only the top wheels run it.

Again guys.. I am not saying that we rules that we run currently are the end all…
I understand each club will have slight variations for the what works best for them and what helps the class grow locally..
What Might be nice to see IMO, is a set of adopted national rules… so when you head out of town, it’s not a scramble to get your poop in a pile… what motor do I take…am I gonna have to kick Spooky’s ass with a 3 port pull start or do I need to pull it around the track with a string…

Can we get a set of GTNational Series Rules...
The only varient would be if a track was requiring a sponsored spec tire.

Thoughts on this?
Agreed on trying to nationalize some set of rules for the masses, but local club racing will have to do what is necessary to gain more racers of course.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why or who came up with money limitation for the engine.....because the money doesn't limit the performance options for engines.......21 vs 28 is such a huge difference that it seems like horsepower is not being limited. I relate to off road electric class where a spec class would have all the same turn motor or stock motor. We don't have those options in Nitro. So just really confused what limiting the dollar amount is accomplishing? That is why I mention same rules divided by skill of drivers. Nobody wants to see the open guy run in spec and win that too.

We cannot really run a true spec class IMO with all the motor options unless we all run the same ports/horsepower/rpm/torque in the motor.....which will force people into motors that they wouldn't ever run. Also in Nitro you can have the same exact motor but different pipe and different tuning which would impact the performance. Just too many variables to put in a stock box and call spec. Only way is to run the spec class with the RTR that are available with that car only. But no all cars make a RTR. So then you would have to use a motor from another RTR in the class.

This is great stuff.....and I am certainly not the deciding factor for any of these questions....just trying to provide input.

I know some of these threads have gone sideways in the past but this is not my intention. I really like the ability to brainstorm with folks in this forum without the few that get all bent out of shape when folks post up ideas!

I suggest starting with the rules for the open class (which seems like we are all in agreement on) then see if any changes are really required or necessary to run a beginner or spec class. Selecting a spec tire is just limiting other manufactures from being involved as well....which will not help the overall class. For instance any sponsored drivers not running sweeps wouldn't really be allowed to run in the class now.

Might be good to have these discussion with the desoto guys when you see them at the local track as well! Especially if they can help have a national impact to the class.

All the Best from Texas!
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:21 AM   #45
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OK ...
Should we grab the ideas from this forum and create a "Board of Directors" for
the GTNational Series Rules.... ???? This board would responable for the rules until ROAR steps in... when ROAR steps in, The Board would direct ROAR as to our goals as group... Thoughts... are we ready

We would:

Let your club/regions leaders know that we would like to do this...

1. I suggest that sponsors and vendors are not alowed to Vote nor be nominated..
a.This would keep the RACERS in control of the direction without any bias...
2. I also think that the board be made of of the guys who make efforts to travel...
Reasoning Example: I dont get a chance to travel as much as I like... and I personaly dont feel that I have enough grasp as to what is happening/needed as a national group.. other than unity.

We could shore up everthing, shake hands and come out racing!
What do you guys think...
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