R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-03-2012, 09:02 AM   #331
Tech Addict
 
scary_jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 514
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Trickle View Post
You're right Jerry. I'm running a new car that nobody has ran. If only I could be like you and have a sponsored driving whispering in my ear how to set up my car.
I just checked.........there's no one in here but me. To whom do you have
reference. Sometimes I alone am my scariest friend.

Love ya.........coming saturday ?????
scary_jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:04 AM   #332
Tech Regular
 
C-Trickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 320
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scary_jerry View Post
I just checked.........there's no one in here but me. To whom do you have
reference. Sometimes I alone am my scariest friend.

Love ya.........coming saturday ?????
Keep telling yourself that one.

Depends on if I can snake out of work or not.
C-Trickle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:17 AM   #333
Tech Addict
 
scary_jerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 514
Smile

Cole.............I just checked..............there's no one here but me.....
and my shadow. I'm not sure who it is that you reference that is 'sponsored' and
whispering in my ear.

I have balanced 'setup' tips because it boils down to the driver anyway.......
not everything everyone else found works for them does so for me. I found no
problem staying with Kyosho..........even with their currently lack of presence
on the GT8 scene (on-track). Maybe you'll get your setup info..............I'm even curious as to where it's going to come from. (watch out for the little voices)
scary_jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:41 AM   #334
Tech Addict
 
Clete Landefeld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILLY JYNX View Post
Regarding the issue of "adjustable" clutches, I have some questions and comments...

Exactly what does "adjustable" mean?

It has been stated that one can change springs, shoes, and even modify the weight of the shoes (shaving), etc. but that "mechanical" adjustments are not allowed.

From this we can draw the conclusion...

The ability to "tune" the clutch engagement to a drivers individual car and track conditions is clearly desirable (as opposed to an exact "Spec" clutch setup with exactly prescribed springs, shoes, flywheel, bell etc. that cannot be modified in any way).

So then what exactly does "adjustable" mean? After all, from the moment that you allow any "change" from a "spec" clutch you are really allowing "adjustment" regardless of what you call the "modification" or "change" and, as we have concluded, the ability to "alter" the characteristics of the clutch is clearly desirable.

It has been suggested that the meaning of "adjustable" is a "mechanical" adjustment. From this clarification and the acceptability of alterations and modifications to clutch components (i.e. shaving shoes) can it be concluded that a more clear rule would be:

***Changes that alter the "characteristics" of a clutch can be made without limitation as long as the change comes from a physical modification or the addition, removal or replacement of a component in the clutch but NOT a solely mechanical change.***

This seems to be the current state of explanation thus far...

We can then conclude the following....

The M2C adjustable flywheel, which can be "tuned", "adjusted", or whatever you want to call it, by adding or removing set screws from the flywheel, is LEGAL. Specifically it is legal because you are adding, removing or replacing a component to effect a "change".

The Fioroni "Vario" clutches are all ILLEGAL. This is because they posses a "mechanical" adjustment which allows you to change the "characteristics" (specifically the spring tension) without adding, removing, modifying or replacing a component.

The Buku clutch is ILLEGAL for the same reason.

However, if the Buku design were changed so that instead of turning an "adjustment" screw to effect the "change" you instead removed and replaced a "spring seat" to effect a change, then this version would be LEGAL.

So, a driver would have a box of tiny different (perhaps color coded) "spring seats" (sounds a lot like a box of different springs, gold, red, black, 30 degrees, 35 degrees, etc, doesn't it...) that they could swap out to "tune" their clutch to different track conditions. And of course because modification of components is allowed then a savvy driver would have these seats hand ground to length to give him exactly the levels of tension he was looking for in advance...

And this is better why?

And who is going to tech a rule like this? Someone running around trying to determine if a person is running a Vario clutch, or what version of Buku, the Original "Speed Tune" or the new "Quick Change GT Legal" version.

The simple reality is, the ability to make "Adjustments" or "tuning" or "alterations" or whatever you want to call it, to improve your performance on the track is a GOOD thing. If it wasn't clearly desirable then everyone would be demanding a "no modifications spec clutch".

Why then is the term "adjustable' being used at all? It reality, it has nothing to do with "adjustments", "adjust-ability, or "tuning"....

It has EVERYTHING to do with Centax or more specifically "Axial" style clutches. Obviously no one is interested in these "on-road" clutches being allowed. It's clear that they are the SOLE source of this issue in the first place. Unfortunately the term "adjustable' was initially used synonymously with "Centax" in the beginning of this discussion well before the range of currently used off-road clutches were considered.

Now later, after the term "adjustable" has been added to a proposed rule (for no real reason other then trying to clearly prohibit Centax or Axial clutches), it must be interpreted to be able to consistently and repeatably make a ruling on clutch legality in a practical manner by a wide range of potential techs and tracks. So we must stumble, case by case, through the VERY wide range of "completely legal for off-road racing" clutches that exist in the world.

Of course, we see all of the above issues arising, which seems to be the exact opposite of what everyone is looking for ... Simplicity and Clarity.

I would suggest that there is a very clear delineation that should be applied instead...

The simple prohibition on Axial (or Centax) style clutches, and/or the mandate that all clutches be Radial (to use a more accurate term). This completely clear and simple delineation could be easily identified and inspected, and is completely clear to understand. (Yes, I know the first question is going to be what about the Werks Power clutch?. The Werks clutch is clearly a "radial" clutch. The spring tension is on the axis but is irrelevant. The TORQUE DELIVERY comes from the shoes traveling out on the radius (hence "radial") and engaging the clutch bell just like every other "Off-Road" clutch.)

I submit this for consideration and, more importantly for the purposes of starting out with a rule that in the future can Practically be included in a Sanctioning Bodies rules, which a prohibition on "adjust-ability" could never be for now obvious reasons...

and, propose the simple rule.

Clutches: Axial (Centax) style clutches are prohibited.

(and if you wish to add: "Only Off-Road, Radial style clutches are allowed.")

Short of a rule like this one, the prohibition on "adjustable' clutches is in for a long, detailed and argument filled journey, which of course makes it that much more likely no one will pay attention to it anyway and I doubt that this is the goal of these discussion...
I did ask the current Board about this a night or two ago... and it seems at this point the adjustable "OFFRoad" clutches will be accepted.... FYI...

And thanks for voicing your concerns! it's important to us..
__________________
Clete
SnotRocket Racing, Team TimeZone, Kamikaze Toys and Hobbies, McKune Design, RC Plus... Thanks for all the help guys!
Clete Landefeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:49 AM   #335
Tech Addict
 
Clete Landefeld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scary_jerry View Post
Cole.............I just checked..............there's no one here but me.....
and my shadow. I'm not sure who it is that you reference that is 'sponsored' and
whispering in my ear.

I have balanced 'setup' tips because it boils down to the driver anyway.......
not everything everyone else found works for them does so for me. I found no
problem staying with Kyosho..........even with their currently lack of presence
on the GT8 scene (on-track). Maybe you'll get your setup info..............I'm even curious as to where it's going to come from. (watch out for the little voices)
Keep in mind.... If I hand my car to either of you.. you might hate it... everyone likes a different feeling car..I like a twitchy car.... lots of steering.. some hate that... waht works fo me..... may not work for you..
Thats why I have no problem sharing my setups....
__________________
Clete
SnotRocket Racing, Team TimeZone, Kamikaze Toys and Hobbies, McKune Design, RC Plus... Thanks for all the help guys!
Clete Landefeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #336
Tech Elite
 
T-Hawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: La Center
Posts: 2,671
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
Keep in mind.... If I hand my car to either of you.. you might hate it... everyone likes a different feeling car..I like a twitchy car.... lots of steering.. some hate that... waht works fo me..... may not work for you..
Thats why I have no problem sharing my setups....
Thats why we politely decline them. Whats for lunch sunday?
T-Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 10:03 AM   #337
Tech Addict
 
Clete Landefeld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Hawk View Post
Thats why we politely decline them. Whats for lunch sunday?
... that was funny.. ... DICK..
We are having humble Pie and a glass of Shut the F#$k up!...
__________________
Clete
SnotRocket Racing, Team TimeZone, Kamikaze Toys and Hobbies, McKune Design, RC Plus... Thanks for all the help guys!
Clete Landefeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #338
Tech Elite
 
T-Hawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: La Center
Posts: 2,671
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
... that was funny.. ... DICK..
We are having humble Pie and a glass of Shut the F#$k up!...
T-Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 10:42 AM   #339
Tech Elite
 
Grenade10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 4,674
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
I did ask the current Board about this a night or two ago... and it seems at this point the adjustable "OFFRoad" clutches will be accepted.... FYI...
Thanks, now I can put my Werks back in ..........
__________________
Darkside, Sweep, BSR, Fantom, IGT Hobbies and IGT8
Byrons Fuel, ProtoForm Bodies & Futaba Radio Gear by Choice
Founding Member of CORRC .... 5280raceway
www.darksidems.com www.igthobbies.com www.IGT8.com
Grenade10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 07:26 PM   #340
Tech Elite
 
Victor Vector's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Over Here
Posts: 2,788
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Any pix of hot DM1s out there ?? What's the way to go for diffs, shocks roll centers etc,

Jacko
__________________
Jack Balchin.
Timezone Hooligan
IBEW Local 48-retired (Definitely, great pension.)
Victor Vector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 07:48 PM   #341
Tech Regular
 
VexVegaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Brooklyn / Staten Island
Posts: 347
Default

I picked up a If28 brake set for the gt2. Am i suppose to glue the pads to the black plastic plate?

Thanks
__________________
Serpent Cobra GT > Serpent 748TQ Serpent S411 Serpent SRX2 Sanwa MT-4 Novarossi Hobbywing Epic D3 Savox > Sweep Tires > BrooklynHobbies.Com

For RC TShirts and Custom Sponsor Shirts & Hoodies, Please Visit www.veytrex.com
VexVegaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 08:19 AM   #342
Tech Fanatic
 
mcsquish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Live at work, play in Toledo, OH
Posts: 828
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VexVegaz View Post
i also use the propeller style clutch. The bell I use is the same one that came with the new 2 speed tranny upgrade for the GT2. Your right , the shoes do stick out a bit with the fioroni clutch. If you happen to find another bell that fits flush, please post and let us know.
Thanks for the info, I'm just happy I'm not just missing something...... If I find something I'll let you know.
__________________
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
Never argue with an idiot, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Dirt Burners Racing - R.I.P. BB / Kolors by Kropy / CEFX / One Eighth Racers
mcsquish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 09:04 AM   #343
Tech Regular
 
C-Trickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 320
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VexVegaz View Post
I picked up a If28 brake set for the gt2. Am i suppose to glue the pads to the black plastic plate?

Thanks
I haven't run those brakes, but I don't believe you do.
C-Trickle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 06:04 PM   #344
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 884
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I had some questions locally about cut outs for the bodies. We have run a 2" diameter on the front , 4" on the rear , and driver window can be cut out for fueling. We as yet have not allowed the fuel guns, since it requires you to cut a substantial hole in the top of the car.
__________________
People spend their lives worrying about death. I'm sliding in broadside h ollering "Wow, what a ride"
spooky 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 07:46 PM   #345
Tech Addict
 
Clete Landefeld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Linn, OR
Posts: 632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky 1 View Post
I had some questions locally about cut outs for the bodies. We have run a 2" diameter on the front , 4" on the rear , and driver window can be cut out for fueling. We as yet have not allowed the fuel guns, since it requires you to cut a substantial hole in the top of the car.
spook,

I have a 3 inch hole in mine/ front... and a 2 in the back... .....No holes in the windows.... but i cut the front whole pretty high... like 1/2 inch past the windows edge...FYI...i basicly took the idea/ Rule from the sedan...look at the roar book.... personally the bigger the hole the worse it will handle.. correct? losts of air in the car... less going over the top...
__________________
Clete
SnotRocket Racing, Team TimeZone, Kamikaze Toys and Hobbies, McKune Design, RC Plus... Thanks for all the help guys!
Clete Landefeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:48 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net