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Old 11-20-2012, 02:54 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by kewdawg View Post
Who said, all American tracks are parking lot tracks with no grip??? Apparently, you haven't raced here, because you would know better than to make that assumption. Tire sauce or treatment is an additive to help increase traction. It should not BE your traction - and will not turn a bad handling car into a TQ'ing machine. Your set-up knowledge or lack there of, which appears to be the case here, carriers 95% of your car's handling ability. It's about knowing when and when not to use it and the proper amount and duration. I have raced on many different paved surfaces. No two were the same. Permanent, parking lot, purpose built permanent tracks (there's a distinct difference) and carpet tracks, which also vary.
I have raced in the US for 12 years and NEVER saw any other track than a paved rectangle with boards on it. Have you?
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:58 PM   #92
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+1 You are absolutely correct PERIOD!!! This is the essence of what I was saying a few pages back, that there will be some who will try in some way, form and/or fashion to diminish the performance of this particular car instead of just accepting it as a viable competitor. Naysayers: "The car was only competitive because it was Hara's home track and it was built to run on that track" Real Talk: "BS, each manufacturer choose there own destiny by how much or litte time/development they put into being competitive." All I gotta say is stop bitchin' and SACK UP to everyone still talkin' that drama!!!
Bitchin' is an american thing, period.

All I said that I wouldn't go out and buy that car based on the performance at this one race in the hands of 3 very special racers under these circumstances.

It's the same as if you'd think you need to buy a Dodge now, because Keselowski won the NSC.

But if the old saying "win on sunday, sell on monday" still works for you than more power to you.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #93
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Fred,

It seems like there will always be haters no matter what. However, if some of us did not take that "leap of faith", we would not know if a car will be good or not for us "average" racers. Personally, I have been a big HPI/HB fan (the Racer 2 with additional 2-speed got me into parking lot nitro racing) for a long time. I had an R40 that I eventually lightened to a point and it was a decent racer (especially at my club track; tough as nails). This is a good looking car with styling queues from many of the current cars on the market. Many of the current cars being run now were hated on when they came out until some of the haters decided to take a chance, get one, and found out that the car was probably better than what they were currently running.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:00 PM   #94
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Fred,

It seems like there will always be haters no matter what. However, if some of us did not take that "leap of faith", we would not know if a car will be good or not for us "average" racers. Personally, I have been a big HPI/HB fan (the Racer 2 with additional 2-speed got me into parking lot nitro racing) for a long time. I had an R40 that I eventually lightened to a point and it was a decent racer (especially at my club track; tough a nails). This is a good looking car with styling queues from many of the current cars on the market. Many of the current cars being run now were hated on when they came out until some of the haters decided to take a chance, get one, and found out that the car was probably better than what they were currently running.
Who's hating?
Nobody in his right mind would hate an RC Car.....
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:02 PM   #95
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+1 You are absolutely correct PERIOD!!! This is the essence of what I was saying a few pages back, that there will be some who will try in some way, form and/or fashion to diminish the performance of this particular car instead of just accepting it as a viable competitor. Naysayers: "The car was only competitive because it was Hara's home track and it was built to run on that track" Real Talk: "BS, each manufacturer choose there own destiny by how much or litte time/development they put into being competitive." All I gotta say is stop bitchin' and SACK UP to everyone still talkin' that drama!!!
I'm putting together a video with the footage my son bought back from the worlds. As he is an Atsushi Hara fan, there's a LOT of the HB car with Atsushi at the wheel. Whether it's Hara devouring Pietsch's Mugen or him with open space, the car is amazing in the corners and change of direction, you can put it down to the driver or track knowledge but the car has to be able to deliver the results and from what I saw, it seemed to carry it's "reliability" to the finish and finished up there in the rankings.

If the car wasnt up to scratch one of the top drivers would have struggled and exposed any flaws, as it happens, it didnt faulter and there's no evidence that it isnt a world class car, as the results speak for themselves.

That's not to say, the capricorn, the KM, the xray arent good, even Shimo put on a great performance for Hyosho, but there's no way anyone could claim the HB is over rated by just looking at it. There were several top drivers on the team and they all performed well, so it's not only the driver either.

Expensive, so it should be with titanium, hard coated alloys and race spec components.

We all know the saying... In the right hands.... If you don't have one in your hands and drive it, perhaps the negativity is a little too "dramatic" as Fred said. The reality is that even if Atsushi Hara hopped on the thread and told us why it WAS good, some would accuse him of team propaganda, so it's a lose lose in that situation.

Nothing can take away from HB what I'm seeing on my screen. Bravo to HPI for coming up with a car, taking it to a World Championship on it's maiden outing and performing like it did!

h
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:10 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by blis View Post
I'm putting together a video with the footage my son bought back from the worlds. As he is an Atsushi Hara fan, there's a LOT of the HB car with Atsushi at the wheel. Whether it's Hara devouring Pietsch's Mugen or him with open space, the car is amazing in the corners and change of direction, you can put it down to the driver or track knowledge but the car has to be able to deliver the results and from what I saw, it seemed to carry it's "reliability" to the finish and finished up there in the rankings.

If the car wasnt up to scratch one of the top drivers would have struggled and exposed any flaws, as it happens, it didnt faulter and there's no evidence that it isnt a world class car, as the results speak for themselves.

That's not to say, the capricorn, the KM, the xray arent good, even Shimo put on a great performance for Hyosho, but there's no way anyone could claim the HB is over rated by just looking at it. There were several top drivers on the team and they all performed well, so it's not only the driver either.

Expensive, so it should be with titanium, hard coated alloys and race spec components.

We all know the saying... In the right hands.... If you don't have one in your hands and drive it, perhaps the negativity is a little too "dramatic" as Fred said. The reality is that even if Atsushi Hara hopped on the thread and told us why it WAS good, some would accuse him of team propaganda, so it's a lose lose in that situation.

Nothing can take away from HB what I'm seeing on my screen. Bravo to HPI for coming up with a car, taking it to a World Championship on it's maiden outing and performing like it did!

h
+1 Could not have said it any better.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:14 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Bitchin' is an american thing, period.

All I said that I wouldn't go out and buy that car based on the performance at this one race in the hands of 3 very special racers under these circumstances.

It's the same as if you'd think you need to buy a Dodge now, because Keselowski won the NSC.

But if the old saying "win on sunday, sell on monday" still works for you than more power to you.

I read more European's bitchin' about saucin' than anyone instead of just dealing with and learning a new technique (It's not my intent to offend anyone with the aforementioned statement, I'm just trying to prove a point. If I have offended you my apologies but I have to use this). Under what circumstances, racing at a WC where there were other "special racers" as well, with more experience and overall track time on different surfaces. Isn't that what a WC is about, all the "special racers" getting together to see who's more special by winning??? This isn't the 1st time a team has developed a car or parts for a specific track but you all make it out to be a big deal this time and use it a way to diminish the viability of the car. Now if the team didn't do well what would you say then, "They failed because they tried to develop a car based upon that track." I believe a true to self competitor would say "way to be smart" and in their own mind make sure they bring their A game next time and not say "you only did well cause you developed your car for this track and I doubt it will be competitve anywhere else." That's rubbish!!! /end_rant
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #98
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Hmmm... a forum is a place to discuss.... It is your opinion against mine and not that I am bashing and you are per definition right. That can only be prooved when it is actually on the maket driving its first races arround the world.
We all know the phrase "what wins on sunday, sells on monday". Not to me it is..

Tire treatment is no technology, it is creating mechanical grip without touching the suspension. If it is alowed then it is fine by me but if not then it is simply cheating. OK, a discussion talked in several other topics but setting up a car without tire treatment is compleetly different. For instance with treatment wanting more steer is just a matter of more or less width saucing on the tires but with no saucing like next year EC's you have to touch the suspension.

If the car really is develloped on that track on such conditions (high grip due lots of training and saucing) it is still a question how it will act in a no saucing and less grip situation.

I am no person wanting the newest stuff, I have seen many troubles with several new cars quickly folowed with updated parts, a wise man will wait and see
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Fred Hubbard View Post
+1 You are absolutely correct PERIOD!!! This is the essence of what I was saying a few pages back, that there will be some who will try in some way, form and/or fashion to diminish the performance of this particular car instead of just accepting it as a viable competitor. Naysayers: "The car was only competitive because it was Hara's home track and it was built to run on that track" Real Talk: "BS, each manufacturer choose there own destiny by how much or litte time/development they put into being competitive." All I gotta say is stop bitchin' and SACK UP to everyone still talkin' that drama!!!

Thanks for keepin' it 100!
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:52 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Bitchin' is an american thing, period.
You're a funny guy. Smh. Have you ever followed Formula 1??? They've taken bitchin' to a whole nother level. Definitely not an American thing.
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Originally Posted by blis View Post
I'm putting together a video with the footage my son bought back from the worlds. As he is an Atsushi Hara fan, there's a LOT of the HB car with Atsushi at the wheel. Whether it's Hara devouring Pietsch's Mugen or him with open space, the car is amazing in the corners and change of direction, you can put it down to the driver or track knowledge but the car has to be able to deliver the results and from what I saw, it seemed to carry it's "reliability" to the finish and finished up there in the rankings.

If the car wasnt up to scratch one of the top drivers would have struggled and exposed any flaws, as it happens, it didnt faulter and there's no evidence that it isnt a world class car, as the results speak for themselves.

That's not to say, the capricorn, the KM, the xray arent good, even Shimo put on a great performance for Hyosho, but there's no way anyone could claim the HB is over rated by just looking at it. There were several top drivers on the team and they all performed well, so it's not only the driver either.

Expensive, so it should be with titanium, hard coated alloys and race spec components.

We all know the saying... In the right hands.... If you don't have one in your hands and drive it, perhaps the negativity is a little too "dramatic" as Fred said. The reality is that even if Atsushi Hara hopped on the thread and told us why it WAS good, some would accuse him of team propaganda, so it's a lose lose in that situation.

Nothing can take away from HB what I'm seeing on my screen. Bravo to HPI for coming up with a car, taking it to a World Championship on it's maiden outing and performing like it did!
+2 Nuff said, blis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Hubbard View Post
I read more European's bitchin' about saucin' than anyone instead of just dealing with and learning a new technique (It's not my intent to offend anyone with the aforementioned statement, I'm just trying to prove a point. If I have offended you my apologies but I have to use this). Under what circumstances, racing at a WC where there were other "special racers" as well, with more experience and overall track time on different surfaces. Isn't that what a WC is about, all the "special racers" getting together to see who's more special by winning??? This isn't the 1st time a team has developed a car or parts for a specific track but you all make it out to be a big deal this time and use it a way to diminish the viability of the car. Now if the team didn't do well what would you say then, "They failed because they tried to develop a car based upon that track." I believe a true to self competitor would say "way to be smart" and in their own mind make sure they bring their A game next time and not say "you only did well cause you developed your car for this track and I doubt it will be competitve anywhere else." That's rubbish!!! /end_rant


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Tire treatment is no technology, it is creating mechanical grip without touching the suspension. If it is alowed then it is fine by me but if not then it is simply cheating. OK, a discussion talked in several other topics but setting up a car without tire treatment is compleetly different. For instance with treatment wanting more steer is just a matter of more or less width saucing on the tires but with no saucing like next year EC's you have to touch the suspension.

If the car really is develloped on that track on such conditions (high grip due lots of training and saucing) it is still a question how it will act in a no saucing and less grip situation.
Let's be clear on this: The grip was up AND down at the world's. If, you're not familiar with saucing tires, I'd rather you say that then make statements like this. Setting up without sauce is not completely different. Setting up a foam tire car to a rubber tire car is completely different. That's very misleading. Also, you use tire sauce in low grip situations, not high grip. That would be the quickest way to induce traction roll, if the grip is high. The car performed in all those conditions. The car will act like any other car, in a "no saucing and less grip situation". Granted, some cars are designed with more mechanical grip then another car. You just have to know what to do with it. That's why this talk about racing under special situations holds no weight. My hometrack has changes in grip levels, during the raceday, all season long. If, it rained. if, the sun is out. if, it is cooler. All these things can and will change the grip level. The racer has to be astute enough to read the track and make the right changes.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:02 PM   #101
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HB did well because they prepared well with an obviously capable car....
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:11 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Hmmm... a forum is a place to discuss.... It is your opinion against mine and not that I am bashing and you are per definition right. That can only be prooved when it is actually on the maket driving its first races arround the world.
We all know the phrase "what wins on sunday, sells on monday". Not to me it is..

Tire treatment is no technology, it is creating mechanical grip without touching the suspension. If it is alowed then it is fine by me but if not then it is simply cheating. OK, a discussion talked in several other topics but setting up a car without tire treatment is compleetly different. For instance with treatment wanting more steer is just a matter of more or less width saucing on the tires but with no saucing like next year EC's you have to touch the suspension.

If the car really is develloped on that track on such conditions (high grip due lots of training and saucing) it is still a question how it will act in a no saucing and less grip situation.

I am no person wanting the newest stuff, I have seen many troubles with several new cars quickly folowed with updated parts, a wise man will wait and see
Gee Roelof "a forum is a place to discuss", I made an innocent coment on a forum once and you "bashed me", It was the end of my participation on forums, its refreshing to read all the comments from people like Blis who keep it polite and informative its also a boost to the RC world when a manufacturer releases a new car it creates a talking point amongst fellow racers which is good
promotion for our great hobby all over the world.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:48 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I have raced in the US for 12 years and NEVER saw any other track than a paved rectangle with boards on it. Have you?
Jackson R/C, New Jersey


Timezone Raceway, Washington State


Everyone should know the Tamiya USA Aliso circuit


Kissimmee RC Raceway, Florida


That is just to name a few...
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:04 PM   #104
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Don't forget Toledo, Cincinnati, and Joliet!!! Wow some people are dense... A track can be world class and still have boards.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:19 PM   #105
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Sorry to jump right into this bloodbath but can you guys provide some factual information about HB's performance in both this years EC and WC?
Andy and Teemu finished 24th and 25th respectively at the EC,Jilles finished 3rd and Tironi 30th.Quals:
Jilles 3rd with 29-7:09.788
Andy 15th with 28-7:03.151
Teemu 37th with 28-7:12.242
This on a 15sec track.Not bad for a debut huh?
Fast forward to WC and 3 R10s made the A,Teemu is TQ and apart from Meen the only one who could fight with HB team was Jilles.
HB's car/setup/drivers have evolved tremendously,kudos for that.
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