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Old 01-14-2005, 11:24 AM   #61
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Originally posted by Clegg
i am confused how a game such as ... ohh lets say EA's F1 Challenge where you can have 30 F1 cars on a tight twisty track and play with 100ms pings and still run smooth via the web, but this game cant handle 2 cars at the same time.


I do appreciate how complex, and intense netcode can be to write. But most racing games have gone through the work to write netcode that will let them do multiplayer. to hear that "ohh no latency we cant work with that" comes off to me as BS. Location prediction, and error correction code, can be used to make games VERY seamless.

yes you cant expect to play on a dialup. but most broad band wiht 60ms pings should be very good.

The comment earlier about them going so fast that its very hard to do that kind of speeds over the web. Well F1 cars go 200 Mph, corner at 90mph in a course thats just more narrow to scale than what R/C cars have to use. Yet games seem to have been able to get that working pretty damn good with 30 people racing at once!.

Unfortunately the solution is actually doing the work to build netcode to handle latency. Which anyone who plays internet games, knows is more an art than a science. But just blaming Latency and taking an easy "timed" way out I guess works if you just didnt ever want to race against anyone else real time.
It's simple. The cars and track are much smaller in this game so the tolerance is much tighter. The impact rediction used in a full size racing sim would put an R/C car in the next lane over gooing the wrong direction.
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Old 01-18-2005, 04:59 PM   #62
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when using USB-2 game is awsomeeee!!!
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Old 01-18-2005, 05:49 PM   #63
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my game starts with black screan then shuts off, is it a graphic card problem, computer is little over two years old (sony)
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:37 AM   #64
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It could be a problem with the intromovie, try installing the latest Windows Media Player and try again..
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Old 01-19-2005, 02:02 PM   #65
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It could be a problem with the intromovie, try installing the latest Windows Media Player and try again..
I did, still same problem,
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Old 01-19-2005, 02:05 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
It's simple. The cars and track are much smaller in this game so the tolerance is much tighter. The impact rediction used in a full size racing sim would put an R/C car in the next lane over gooing the wrong direction.
What? you know impact prediction is done on a per polygon level in most "real" car sims. There are on some car models up to 1000 "points" referenced for impact locations.

I am sure you can put 4 on a box around a lil car and the computer can handle it just fine.

The "little and fast" thing is BS, from a computer language angle its all the same no matter what scale.
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Old 01-19-2005, 03:20 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clegg
What? you know impact prediction is done on a per polygon level in most "real" car sims. There are on some car models up to 1000 "points" referenced for impact locations.

I am sure you can put 4 on a box around a lil car and the computer can handle it just fine.

The "little and fast" thing is BS, from a computer language angle its all the same no matter what scale.
Not true, little and fast is always much harder for impact prediction when lag comes up. If you ever try and play an online shooting game with latency over 200 you will have a very hard time hitting any targets. The coding of the routines is not the problem, it is dealing with the high latency that is harder. Large slow objects see less problems with high latency.
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:47 AM   #68
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Bit disapointed, no matter what I do I just can't jump the fence, and when I get really angry the motor won't pop.
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Old 01-20-2005, 03:20 PM   #69
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If anybody could it would be much appreciated.

We i click register to register an event, it doesn't do anything>

Any suggestions? What should it be doing?

Thanks
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Old 01-20-2005, 07:42 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
Not true, little and fast is always much harder for impact prediction when lag comes up. If you ever try and play an online shooting game with latency over 200 you will have a very hard time hitting any targets. The coding of the routines is not the problem, it is dealing with the high latency that is harder. Large slow objects see less problems with high latency.
If you have a latency of 200 you shouldnt be playing games online

Sub 100 pings are the highest anyone whould expect a smooth operation. and fast and small isnt hard, think about how the shooter games calculate bullets, missles, lasers in games so accurately. thats very fast, and very small impact prediction
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:23 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clegg
If you have a latency of 200 you shouldnt be playing games online

Sub 100 pings are the highest anyone whould expect a smooth operation. and fast and small isnt hard, think about how the shooter games calculate bullets, missles, lasers in games so accurately. thats very fast, and very small impact prediction
Shooting games again do impact detection as you said with bullets etc, but it can be a good estimate based on impact detection. However again that is a simple matter due to the fact that you have a fast moving object impacting a slow or stationary object and you usually dont draw in the bullets.

The complexity is modelling two fast moving small objects travelling at the same speed very close to each other.

I know you say dont game over 200 ping but how do you solve that in an international game?
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:32 PM   #72
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You guys make it sound like these cars are moving near the speed of light.

There fast, but data transfer (if properly done), and computer power is still faster.

Ive played lots of games, and wrote lots of code, and I seriously think that the 'stress' of trying to do real time racing with lil cars is extremely over blown. Small or large, fast or slow, a good game engine can compensate. if you look at what any other multiplayer game can do, whether its impact prediction or detection, games can track and accurately predict, and detect impacts of thousands of items at once over a net connection.

10 small cars are just nothing special, not even when moving fast.
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:37 PM   #73
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International games wouldnt work. Just that simple. Its a minimum 110 ms ping to go half way around the world. (speed of light and all that not factoring in routing latencies) I think 235ms is the fastest you can go around the surface of the planet in a complete circle.
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:56 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clegg
You guys make it sound like these cars are moving near the speed of light.

There fast, but data transfer (if properly done), and computer power is still faster.

Ive played lots of games, and wrote lots of code, and I seriously think that the 'stress' of trying to do real time racing with lil cars is extremely over blown. Small or large, fast or slow, a good game engine can compensate. if you look at what any other multiplayer game can do, whether its impact prediction or detection, games can track and accurately predict, and detect impacts of thousands of items at once over a net connection.

10 small cars are just nothing special, not even when moving fast.
I happen to have written a small amount of network code over my 10 years in the industry as well. I have never said it cannot be done but I can tell you that it is not a trivial task when you are trying to extrapolate car positions at high speeds with high latency. Why? Well as you must obviously know the network traffic speeds means that you can only send the cars position a given number of times per lap. High latency means less position points are sent in a given fixed time frame. So at that point you must extrapolate the cars positions between position refreshes based on guesses. Thats where it gets ugly. If everybody runs nice fast machines and nice fast networks you are right the computer power of modern machines is plenty fast. Why is speed important? The faster things go the bigger "gaps" between position refreshing. Why is size important? Because when a rc car impacts something like a track barrier or another car it normally is quite adversely affected. When I lagged into my team members M1A1 last night i just bounced off him.

You can get it to work nicely for 99% of the time, but it is the 1% that annoys people. Come back and talk to me when somebody shoots off the straight due to lag or the impact detection gets a little oversensitive and crashes a car when they visually dont touch. They wont be pleased. Touching in RC usually means you get deflected off course and/or crash.

I just played a clan war on Desert Combat last night and saw my share of glitching even though all our pings were under 100. Did you play HalfLife2 multiplayer when it was first released? My ping was 32 and it was lagging so badly it was unplayable. I would guess that the development team of HL2 is a bit bigger than the VRC team.
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:57 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clegg
International games wouldnt work. Just that simple. Its a minimum 110 ms ping to go half way around the world. (speed of light and all that not factoring in routing latencies) I think 235ms is the fastest you can go around the surface of the planet in a complete circle.
Right we have established that a while back.
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