R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-12-2012, 04:30 PM   #106
Tech Regular
 
djiewie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 440
Default

Thank you DS, the parts i`v been improving since i bought the car in 2009, so it was`nt that big an investment once. I will try the plastic shocks if you think that they are better. Never knew they were lighter though.

Yeah its looking real promising, hopefully more people will not get disappointed.
Since i was`nt there to vote i`m not complaining, just trying to go with the flow. Still a whole year to get to the limit or close anyway.

Now the next issue is how to get weight back in the car and where is the best position steering wise. You know i like a agressive car.

i`m sure that my fellow racers on the MACH track will outpace the 1/8 class with the rules as the are for this year. Seems that more racers will join the 1/10 class i think at least on the MACH.
djiewie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #107
Tech Elite
 
Pattojnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 4,594
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aza088 View Post
The above lol how much do you think people are going to spend i spend $60 on titanium screws how much more will i have to spend on the serpent to get it down to that weight if Australia follows suit.
Bringing the weight down is just making this sport more expensive.
Fair enough people have to but the car buy the engine starter box parts tools truer and the rest...............

Now they have to go but every light weight part they can find im starting to modify my own parts lucky i have a lathe and a mini mill so il lightening shit myself.

But forget that i hope the Brands make there cars lighter and get them into the market by the end of this year.

But all EFRA has done is if making the serious racer spend more money to lighten there car my opinion this is stupid but can somebody give me some points why EFRA would want to lighten the weight limit.

I Don't want to hear the less weight my engine will make 5min or this will save tyre wear what is the real reason for the rule change???????????????
Please
the negative far outweight the positives here. light weight everything to get the min weight to be compettitive = more cost = more fragile car = more DNF's = less fun which end result, people will just leave this form of racing. so how can this be good ? but on another level Aaron, EFRA proposed the 1550 limit, Italy seconded it , maybe some pressure from a manufacturer or drivers from Italy was the main reason it was proposed in the first place. the much more sensible 1600 proposal had no support. people can live with being over weight by 30- 50 grams, but not 100's of grams. so now all manufacturers will go back to the drawing boards and design cars around a weight limit , there fore the rest of the world must follow as the cars will be much underweight else where.
__________________
Serpent - Walter RC
Serpent E Power ..... Serpent 747 Reds M3T
Serpent 966-TE Reds M7T .... S411ERYX Speedpassion 3.5T, T-Shox
Serpent 811-TE REDs R5T
Pattojnr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #108
Tech Regular
 
djiewie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 440
Default

i agree with you that its madness, it will make it less atractive for new racers.
we have started a stock class just for the reason to get the costs down. It could be that EFRA rules is discarded only on the weight. but if manufacturers are behind this proposal those cars will be made lighter.
lets work with it en be positive. Ive been racing with a 1800 gr car with the 1700 gr cars and winning heats so don`t make it a to big issue a think.
djiewie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:06 PM   #109
Tech Master
 
DS Motorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,440
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djiewie View Post
Thank you DS, the parts i`v been improving since i bought the car in 2009, so it was`nt that big an investment once. I will try the plastic shocks if you think that they are better. Never knew they were lighter though.

Yeah its looking real promising, hopefully more people will not get disappointed.
Since i was`nt there to vote i`m not complaining, just trying to go with the flow. Still a whole year to get to the limit or close anyway.

Now the next issue is how to get weight back in the car and where is the best position steering wise. You know i like a agressive car.

i`m sure that my fellow racers on the MACH track will outpace the 1/8 class with the rules as the are for this year. Seems that more racers will join the 1/10 class i think at least on the MACH.
You want as much weight between the battery and engine as possible.
With this setup I will add around 185 grams to the car:



The tungsten plates weigh 15 grams each (4 of them on the car) and the tungsten blocks are 5 grams each (6 of them behind the battery).
The round Hudy weights are 15 grams each.
The heavy motor mount is 35 grams more then the stock mount.
The difference between the plastic and the brass battery tray is around 30 grams.

Regarding the Mach, I will try the 1/8 with the basic engine, I'm pretty sure I will be faster then the 1/10 with the basic engine.
__________________
P1-RC.com
DS Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 03:06 AM   #110
Tech Regular
 
djiewie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 440
Default

Thanks DS for the advise. Looks good to see the picture how you`v done it.

Looks like the weight is on the edge of the chassis to compensate the heavy
engine mount. Did you balance it in the middle on the hudy pins??

The Cap engine mount is very good but stil out of my budget too bad.

Keep me posted about the MACh if you would, as i am driving on an other track presumable this year.
djiewie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 03:43 AM   #111
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.moorebankraceway.com
Posts: 5,119
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

EFRA will adopt this in 2013, it's only a matter of time that the rest of the world follows suit... i can't see why Asia (second and only other region with top racing brand manufacturers) will keep the old weight of 1725grams.

this is a great shame, as it means total re designs, or in the interim more hop ups when they previously were not needed. Xray have reached their re design point right on time, but this means brands like Mugen who just released a new car have missed the boat and jumped in too early with a new design

Ti pivot balls, arm pins, turnbuckles, and screws are a definate requirement now. that's easily $250 more in parts. It isn't hard to knock weight of these cars, the problem is it costs half the price of a kit to buy the parts to do it.

Magnesium baulkheads anyone...people, alloy parts are the new plastic

expect to see a Carbon chassis car with brass chassis weight inserts rear, mid and centre, magnesium baulkheads and major use of titanium parts soon

PS the picture of the cap car with the weight hanging off the edge?! eeek!, not a good way to help the cars side to side transitional movement
TomB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 05:57 AM   #112
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 40
Default

Maybe some of you havn't read my earlier post on this matter.

All major manufacturers had a short email discussion with Franky about the weight issue. As we all know now, the weight will be 1700g for 2012 in the EFRA block. But it is not sure, that the 1550g will come in 2013.

Franky asked the manufactures what they could live with. Most of them (that had sent a reply) answered they want to have 1650g and Franky agreed to try to put in vote for 1650g for 2013. They can just add the sentence "valid from 2013" and that's it.

So I wouldn't count on 1550g for 2013...

Best regards
Patrick
__________________
www.team-shepherd.com - www.sonic-engines.com
Trick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 06:29 AM   #113
Tech Regular
 
djiewie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 440
Default

1550 and now 1650?? Looks like bargening.
Tell you what ; i settle for 1600, DEAL??????

Just kidding
djiewie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 07:45 AM   #114
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.moorebankraceway.com
Posts: 5,119
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trick View Post
Maybe some of you havn't read my earlier post on this matter.

All major manufacturers had a short email discussion with Franky about the weight issue. As we all know now, the weight will be 1700g for 2012 in the EFRA block. But it is not sure, that the 1550g will come in 2013.

Franky asked the manufactures what they could live with. Most of them (that had sent a reply) answered they want to have 1650g and Franky agreed to try to put in vote for 1650g for 2013. They can just add the sentence "valid from 2013" and that's it.

"So I wouldn't count on 1550g for 2013...

Best regards
Patrick
the response from EFRA's Franky Noens on the redrc site says:

"The new rule regarding the minimum weight of 1550 gr. will take effect on 01/01/2013".

http://www.redrc.net/2012/01/efra-cl...es/#more-50581

it's been voted and passed, therefore approved for the 2013.

regarding saucing he says:
"Treatment of the tyres with additives is allowed as long as the products used are not volatile and toxic"

ie: this means sunscreen can be used

regarding track conditions for EC's (euro championship events)
"the organisers are obliged to treat their track in such a way, that there is a lot of grip during the entire event".

ie: this means organisers need to treat the track with something as the rules state "obliged to treat their track", it isn't sufficient enough to say "it's grippy".

2013 will be a very different racing year from 2012 (in Europe at least...for now)
TomB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 07:57 AM   #115
Tech Regular
 
djiewie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
the response from EFRA's Franky Noens on the redrc site says:

"The new rule regarding the minimum weight of 1550 gr. will take effect on 01/01/2013".

http://www.redrc.net/2012/01/efra-cl...es/#more-50581

it's been voted and passed, therefore approved for the 2013.

regarding saucing he says:
"Treatment of the tyres with additives is allowed as long as the products used are not volatile and toxic"

ie: this means sunscreen can be used

regarding track conditions for EC's (euro championship events)
"the organisers are obliged to treat their track in such a way, that there is a lot of grip during the entire event".

ie: this means organisers need to treat the track with something as the rules state "obliged to treat their track", it isn't sufficient enough to say "it's grippy".

2013 will be a very different racing year from 2012 (in Europe at least...for now)
Al rules approved for 2013
could you elaborate about tire treatment please
djiewie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 08:27 AM   #116
Tech Master
 
DS Motorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,440
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

[
Quote:
Originally Posted by djiewie View Post
Thanks DS for the advise. Looks good to see the picture how you`v done it.

Looks like the weight is on the edge of the chassis to compensate the heavy
engine mount. Did you balance it in the middle on the hudy pins??

The Cap engine mount is very good but stil out of my budget too bad.

Keep me posted about the MACh if you would, as i am driving on an other track presumable this year.
I don't like balancing the car with just the Hudy pins. I prefer the same setup we use in 1:1 motorsport:


This setup was just for the pictures, normally I replace the shocks with two track rods and make sure the wheels are at the same height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
expect to see a Carbon chassis car with brass chassis weight inserts rear, mid and centre, magnesium baulkheads and major use of titanium parts soon
How cool would that be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
PS the picture of the cap car with the weight hanging off the edge?! eeek!, not a good way to help the cars side to side transitional movement
It's not that bad, when you move the weight further out you will need less weight to balance the car. With this setup my car was perfectly balanced and weighed in at 1702 with bare rims.
Might look into replacing the RH side Hudy weight with a Tungsten weight though to bring the weight further to the center.
__________________
P1-RC.com

Last edited by DS Motorsport; 01-13-2012 at 08:39 AM.
DS Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 08:38 AM   #117
Tech Master
 
DS Motorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,440
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
the response from EFRA's Franky Noens on the redrc site says:

"The new rule regarding the minimum weight of 1550 gr. will take effect on 01/01/2013".

http://www.redrc.net/2012/01/efra-cl...es/#more-50581

it's been voted and passed, therefore approved for the 2013.

regarding saucing he says:
"Treatment of the tyres with additives is allowed as long as the products used are not volatile and toxic"

ie: this means sunscreen can be used

regarding track conditions for EC's (euro championship events)
"the organisers are obliged to treat their track in such a way, that there is a lot of grip during the entire event".

ie: this means organisers need to treat the track with something as the rules state "obliged to treat their track", it isn't sufficient enough to say "it's grippy".

2013 will be a very different racing year from 2012 (in Europe at least...for now)
Patrick is right regarding his explanation for the 1550 rule, it will probably never happen. For 2013 they will make a new proposal for something like a 1650 rule which will be valid from 1/1 2013.

Regarding the additive, the additive makers have been asked to send in samples of their product to the efra. Products which aren't toxic will be put on an approval list.
The idea of the obligatory track treatment is to make sure the track has more then enough traction and so using additive will become useless, you will be traction rolling all over the place. To me this sounds like a good solution for the additive problem.
__________________
P1-RC.com
DS Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 08:45 PM   #118
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.moorebankraceway.com
Posts: 5,119
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS Motorsport View Post
Patrick is right regarding his explanation for the 1550 rule, it will probably never happen. For 2013 they will make a new proposal for something like a 1650 rule which will be valid from 1/1 2013..
if i were a manufacturer i would go ahead and design a 1550gram car with scope to place chassis weights at it's lowest points front 25 to 30 grams mid 5o grams and rear25 to 30 grams to bring it up to 1650grams for competition events.

in the event that 1550grams does eventually become legal, all you need to do is remove the wieghts.

manufacturers also need to look at using lighter high tensile strength plastics for the diffs now also.
TomB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 09:07 PM   #119
Tech Apprentice
 
HPIRacer79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
Default

makes you wonder how much pulling power capricorn have with EFRA...

EFRA approve tire treatment and capricorn come out with a treatment machine a week later....

EFRA approve a weight drop to 1550g and the lab-CO1 seems to be the only car that comfortably can meet it without too much effort.

coincidence???

soon, EFRA will only allow red anodizing and grey wheels in the NT class
__________________
Sticking up for the RC Battler since 2010.

Whenever you need something said, but are too afraid to do so, call 1800 HPIRACER.
HPIRacer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 03:24 AM   #120
Tech Regular
 
djiewie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
if i were a manufacturer i would go ahead and design a 1550gram car with scope to place chassis weights at it's lowest points front 25 to 30 grams mid 5o grams and rear25 to 30 grams to bring it up to 1650grams for competition events.

in the event that 1550grams does eventually become legal, all you need to do is remove the wieghts.

manufacturers also need to look at using lighter high tensile strength plastics for the diffs now also.
Furthermore, its been voted on and approved. SO ITS FINAL IN MY BOOK. and Its been told to the public. racers need time to adopt to these new rules. Seems to me very strange that these dicisions are not final. So when racers spend money and prepare for 2013 they can be surpriced by the EFRA on 2013 and they can without any reason say sorry it was all a hoax.! People tell me ; If you don`t attend the meeting you have lost the right to complain. So what is new. i am not complaining about the dicision just vind it strange that it can easily be discarded and changed.
djiewie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The New Werks B5 .21 Racing Engine Werks Offroad Nitro Engine Forum 9312 11-08-2017 11:45 AM
ROAR new body rules pdmustgt Nitro Off-Road 361 05-24-2011 03:25 PM
New Ener-G 4600 Ni-MH Cell Kropy Electric On-Road 507 09-15-2009 10:53 AM
New EFRA 7min Qualifying Rule Michael_T Nitro On-Road 36 03-01-2009 09:44 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:52 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net