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Old 11-04-2012, 10:41 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by michael 1 View Post
i cant see this helping , one tire mfg. have to put up 150 euros or there about
as a deposit for tires , one diameter , one choice of shore , and this because
as one of the efra people have said the cost to get sauce is to much to bear
for the racers ,
Think before you talk, would you?

At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....

THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.

Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.

Good stuff, ain't it?

Secondly, you'd have to buy your tyres before tha race anyways, so what's the difference.

Now you even have the luxury to only buy at the track what you really need.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:01 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Sorry to disagree, but they are finally getting it, because the idiocy of a few has been killing nitro onroad over here for quite a while.
We had the lowest turnouts in Euro Champs in history last year because of all that tyre saucing crap that nobody, but the Italians wanted.

The only one that crying are the team drivers and they are not important.

Important are the people who pay for their stuff themselves.
you can not only blame the tire saucing for the low numbers, the economical situation could be a reason as well!


Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Think before you talk, would you?

At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....

THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the 400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.

Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
Let me remind you that saucing is started at the pro's and now you are telling that they do not want it while they were using it in secret for years? Regarding the applicators, they have insane prices and can be made much cheaper.
But not all think the same, several drivers think saucing is the only way to keep it simple and the choice of what tire and saucing free.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:20 AM   #393
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you can not only blame the tire saucing for the low numbers, the economical situation could be a reason as well!
Yes I can and I do and no, that's not what I'm seeing here.




Quote:
Let me remind you that saucing is started at the pro's and now you are telling that they do not want it while they were using it in secret for years? Regarding the applicators, they have insane prices and can be made much cheaper.
But not all think the same, several drivers think saucing is the only way to keep it simple and the choice of what tire and saucing free.
You really seem to love your tyre sauce, don't you?

Don't you get it? As soon as everybody uses it, it doesn't give the average racer an advantage. It's just one more thing to worry about and spend money on.
It will still give the pro's an advantage, because they'll always be the first to know what's new and how it works, while the regular guy has to find out by trial and error and pay for it...
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:36 AM   #394
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Cool

I think this is great news, especially the handout tires. Think i have to get a NitroTourer again

/ Roland Strom
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:49 AM   #395
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I do not like saucing too but if they are the rules I go ahead with it and I have made it as cheap as possible. I do know that the only way to avoid it is a hand out tire and to me personal I doubt it is the right choice although I know it is well used in the electric TC. 1 set of tires per race or 5 sets tires per race is a difference. Not only with the investment on a tight budget but also the amount of the needed 300 sets per race.
And be fair that arround the world saucing in the 1/8 is a known thing and with electrics it is a standard (except last WC).

The problem is that the control tire does need extra hands, hands that are difficult to find today. Not only the hands but also the organisation to get them like who will and can deliver them in the most fair way (not giving it to one supplier who is anxious to deliver them for all races) I can imagine that in large countries with large suppliers like Germany, France and Italy it is easy to make such a deal, in Holland some efford is needed to get them to the track whith the chance they are not on time or not delivered at all.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:02 AM   #396
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Default This is what was approved in 03/11/2012 EFRA meeting

1/8 Scale

weight- 2400g
16% nitro
Back to 9mm venturi
5 minutes qualifying (with or without refueling - drivers choice)
Controled tires in EFRA events (GPs and Euros)

1/10 Scale

Weight - 1650g (after the 1550g aproved last year changed again with efects next year)
5 minutes qualifying (with or without refueling - drivers choice)
Controled tires in EFRA events (GPs and Euros)
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:26 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Lus Cortez View Post
Controled tires in EFRA events (GPs and Euros)
So far decided only for the EC A and B for 1/8 and 1/10. The EC40+ is something to look at but must be no problem and the GP is what the organiser has to decide.....
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:08 AM   #398
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So far decided only for the EC A and B for 1/8 and 1/10. The EC40+ is something to look at but must be no problem and the GP is what the organiser has to decide.....
Hi Roelof

This is also in the minute of the EFRA meeting:

France: how about GP ad tires. Treatment is not allowed so a Controlled tire needs to be considered for these races if possible.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:44 AM   #399
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Considered...... as was mentioned at the AGM it is difficult to determ the amout of racers on a GP to order tires at the right time. An option mentioned was that the organiser could do something with a local supplier, it seems every one can bring their own tires and the organiser need to check them on treatment.

There is also no rule/option made what to do with rain....
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:48 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Yes I can and I do and no, that's not what I'm seeing here.






You really seem to love your tyre sauce, don't you?

Don't you get it? As soon as everybody uses it, it doesn't give the average racer an advantage. It's just one more thing to worry about and spend money on.
It will still give the pro's an advantage, because they'll always be the first to know what's new and how it works, while the regular guy has to find out by trial and error and pay for it...
we do get it if everyone can use it then there are no hidden advantage's and the cost is only what 20.00 and how many tire's will that work on if it remains hidden then for sure only a few will have a advantage as some will figure way's to get around sniffers and such. It has been on the electric side for how long going back to slot cars and evergreen oil try thinking about that
the pro's will always have advantage's that the average racer will not, as for me here in the states i can only hope that foolishness will stay on that side of the pond
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Last edited by michael 1; 11-05-2012 at 07:57 AM. Reason: add
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:28 AM   #401
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The thing is that this tire rule will not solve problems for club races nor for National Championship! I assure you in France I doubt we will have handout tire!

So we will probably still have drivers using sauce, whether it's legal or not!
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:24 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Think before you talk, would you?

At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....

THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.

Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.

Good stuff, ain't it?

Secondly, you'd have to buy your tyres before tha race anyways, so what's the difference.

Now you even have the luxury to only buy at the track what you really need.
I'm sorry but you are the one who needs to think a bit more:

Quote:
At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
Not true, I actually haven't seen anyone at the 1/10 A EC with a dedicated additive guy.
The fastest driver of the event, Jilles, was pitting at the same table as me.
He applied it 30 minutes in advance, didn't change a thing all week.
Received one type of additive, didn't try another type. Also there were only two types used, MR33 and Capricorn.

For me it also was a lot easier to be competitive, this year I was 0,3 seconds down on the fastest guys compared to 0,8 seconds last year in Ettlingen where we also had a form of handout tires. This was a complete nightmare.

Quote:
THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.
You are talking about the vacuum thing right?. This wasn't really popular, out of 100 drivers 2 or 3 used the vacuum machine. And their cars weren't looking any better on track or had the additive effect lasting any longer.
The guy from the vacuum thing also had a stand at the track. He tried to look very important, mixing various products, but no one visited his stand. It looked quite pathetic.

Quote:
Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
You also know the track they ran on had extremely high tire wear. Probably without additive you also had to make an extra stop compared to a normal track.

Quote:
Now you even have the luxury to only buy at the track what you really need.
Now you have the problem you will only know 8 weeks in advance which tires you will need at the EC. Then you will have to order them, they might be hard to get in your country, and test them before you head out to the euros. This doesn't leave you with a lot of time.

Also the shores chosen for 1/10 amaze me a bit, all of the current cars work better with a bigger split, 35/40 for example. Also this is much better to even out the wear. Also the big size in qualifying will cause a lot of problems with traction roll in 1/10.

I think the gap between the payed drivers and the privateers will be bigger again in 2013 because of the rules.

I will compete at the EC B 1/10 in Gubbio to try the new rules. If I don't like it I will probably completely quit nitro and fully focus on electric and the ETS series.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:52 AM   #403
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I think the gap between the payed drivers and the privateers will be bigger again in 2013 because of the rules.

I will compete at the EC B 1/10 in Gubbio to try the new rules. If I don't like it I will probably completely quit nitro and fully focus on electric and the ETS series.
It's a crying shame that this dumb issue has come to this! I think there will be problems with control tires; and I do not believe that there any certainty at all, that control tires rule won't be scrapped after the next EFRA AGM.

But I actually also have concerns about tire saucing. Didn't Michael Salven say something like that you had to go out with 59mm rear tires in 10th scale to be competitive under the conditions at the Euros in a Youtube interview? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkgeSblOp-Q It was probably only one off, but I wouldn't be too happy with wasting all that foam to stay competitive.

It's a very difficult issue; there is no possible way for EFRA to be right and come up with a solution that won't cause problems or disatisfaction in some way.

Kindest regards,
Lars
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:28 AM   #404
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Making rules is always a war between 2 or more ways of thinking.....The funny thing is that the majority of the Dutch EFRA drivers were against the control tire so there must be more I think.

The only interesting thing to see is how well the top 30 EFRA ranking will be doing with this setup. Can they really go fast as well or were some of them only fast due (ilegal) tire treatment?

On the other hand if they do not come you will never know but I think the many other sponsors they have could force them to go.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:05 AM   #405
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Are the control tires going to be handed out in the staging area? If not people will still cheat with additives. Some work well 15-30 minutes after application.

I also notice if you do not sauce on a track where some are, you will slide all over the place.
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