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Old 10-06-2012, 06:23 PM   #301
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If I have read that right, 1650 gram weight on a 200mm, and control tyres now at big events?

I do prefer the idea of control tyres over allowing compounds, doping foams just all looks like too much work all around, and control tyres gets around other issues as well.
That's how I read it; perhaps your earlier remarks about control have had some impact Kerry. would take care of accusation of cheating, once for all. Just banning tire treatment won't work, since EFRA has already confirmed that some compounds are undetectable. I'm also against tire sauce, but I also think that it should be allowed in conditions where it cannot be controlled, to stop accusations of cheating.

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If I have read that right, 1650 gram weight.
Top marks for frankness from the EFRA partners; they are not afraid to admit that the 1550 gr. was a little too severe. But I don't think that they can be accused of consistency.

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Old 10-07-2012, 12:19 AM   #302
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I get the feeling most realized a while back 1550 grams was just not going to work, so the 1650 weight change is not surprising, and it was said that would happen some time back.

The control tyre is more surprising, all the talk of "EFRA" approved environmental friendly and safe traction compounds, but I think, and suspect, it alarmed a fair few people at the effort required and time needed to properly dope tyres recently, which possibly pushed popular opinion to agreeing control tyres were a friendlier and fairer option for all.

Personally I like the idea of controlling things like tyres and even fuel at big events, though it's not that popular a move from all the suppliers, but it's hard to deny it can cerate a fairer element.
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:40 AM   #303
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Yes, a control tire seems the way to ban out tire treatments but how more you do think about it it raises more questions....

- Tire treatment is always used in electrics and some parts in the world. Why now all the hussle about dangerous fluids? OK, some drivers do anything to get the best out of it but then those dangerous fluids should excist already and are used already....
- Meanwhile people are charging their LiPo receiver packs placed in the car under a full tank beside the 5 liter can fuel.... what if a battery fails?
- Mare and more we see those large jars where you can put in your exhaust and comes out as new after an half hour. Then they are complaining about toxic tire sauce?
- A lot of people do get their tires for free or with a special deal. The control tire must be very afforable to attract those people.
- The subscription for a race will be 150 euro more. I know people buy their tires (and RC parts) on a moment they have the extra money like a 13th month salery, a bonus, hollyday money etc.or as mentioned in a special deal like over the winter when faster drivers and shops sell there tires to get fresh ones.
- A control tire does mean a lot of efford from the organisation, is an organisation willing to setup an controll area and provide enough people to get it done? I know a lot of local clubs who won't...

With today's bad economics I am sure that the control tire can cause problems.

But a 4 GP race format for an EC is a good thing to get an healthy GP again and makes it more exciting to follow.

16% for the 1/8 is not making a difference.
2400 gramm is still in my opinion a bad choice.

Remarkable was the proposal from the EFRA secretary to go back to 9mm carbs
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:39 AM   #304
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That's some good news.
No sauce to worry just have to true after they hand me a bag of tires?
1650gr oh so good,is where my G4 stands atm and my RRR is 50gr heavier both running NiMH battery packs.
Roelof,those who charge lipos without removing them are lacking more common sense than rules I guess.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:37 AM   #305
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I favor minimum weight of 1700 grams for 1/10, and 2500 grams for 1/8 .
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:04 PM   #306
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Roelof,those who charge lipos without removing them are lacking more common sense than rules I guess.
Within the NOMAC we have rules to charge all Lithium based batteries with a balancer in a LiPo bag, sadly most people do charge them mouted in the car without a balancer. I know one driver who used the 3rd (white) wire on the Futaba style battery cable to adapt the middle connection of the 2 cells in the pack and created an own charging cable so he can make a balanced charge through the Futaba plug. This should be made as a standard.

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I favor minimum weight of 1700 grams for 1/10, and 2500 grams for 1/8 .
Mine too. It is cheaper to add weight than to lower it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:01 AM   #307
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I'm not sure why there is so much fear to do with LiPo and LiFe RX packs, if used properly they should be every bit as safe as a NiMh, and you have to really do the wrong thing to make them an issue.

About the only real beware on any of the lithium packs, is just don't run them flat, it will kill them, likewise they will safely survive it, just as long as you then don't use them again if you mess up and do that, which is a bit of a pain, but about the only real safety concern.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:02 AM   #308
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I favor minimum weight of 1700 grams for 1/10, and 2500 grams for 1/8 .
I think that when new racers buy a kit in the shop, they shouldn`t be pressed to mounting weight on it just to attend races. The EFRA or IFMAR should put the weight from the lowest weight kit as the limit. The weight build out off the box.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:11 AM   #309
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[QUOTE=Bishop;11298954]I'm not sure why there is so much fear to do with LiPo and LiFe RX packs, if used properly they should be every bit as safe as a NiMh, and you have to really do the wrong thing to make them an issue./QUOTE]

I had NiMh battery fail with broken connections between the cells.
Now with Life no problem. If you use NiMh, be sure you solder each cell sepperate with wire to be save.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:46 AM   #310
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I'm not sure why there is so much fear to do with LiPo and LiFe RX packs, if used properly they should be every bit as safe as a NiMh, and you have to really do the wrong thing to make them an issue.
The problem is that in the field packs are failing even when treated carefully. And a bad thing with a LiPo fire is that it is hot and can ruin the place what no club wants. It is just to be save than sorry. Beside that, with a full 125cc fueltank on top of it with methanol (!!) it will only help more if a battery explodes.

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I think that when new racers buy a kit in the shop, they shouldn`t be pressed to mounting weight on it just to attend races. The EFRA or IFMAR should put the weight from the lowest weight kit as the limit. The weight build out off the box.
Bad sugestion... If one company comes with a car fully equipped with carbon, aluminium, titanium and magnesiun without any steel parts then all other companies and drivers using them products are having a huge task and expensives to comply with the lightest car. Be aware that Capricorn is already blamed as the founder of this 1550 limit because they had the only car doing it.
It can only have some sense if you build it up with the heaviest options like the heviest engine, the thickest body, a NiMh battery and the heaviest servo's. Only then there is a lot of room for others to go with.

And what about new drivers? All new drivers do drive a new kit?
And please do think from the other side. If you have a car of 1750 gram, you have to loose 200 gram, or you have to buy a new car or you have to get all kind of lightweight options. A car of lets say 1580 gram just needs 120 gram to comply with 1700 gram, which is actually a 2 dollar strip of lead. Is that such a pain?

If you want to ruin the hobby within this sport, go ahead but be not be supprised when the nationals has to quit due a lack of drivers.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:47 AM   #311
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Most old cars like the MTX4,RRR and the 720 can race at 1700gr with just a change to LiXX receiver pack and with the newgen cars on market you can use weight as ballast to change weight bias and achieve a lower CG.Tipically newgen cars weight around 1680 with standard size electronics and lipo so 1700 is nice as you don't have to swap all steel to aluminum or titanium parts.While we're at it I would like to keep engine prices lower and maybe go back to how it used to be,turbo head engines+no fancy work done on crankshaft/block/sleeve/piston/rod,just different timings between engines.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:24 AM   #312
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If you want to ruin the hobby within this sport, go ahead but be not be supprised when the nationals has to quit due a lack of drivers.
Talk to Sander i suggest then. Lack of drivers is already here without the weight thing being a issue. I sure don`t won`t to ruin the hobby, i resent this remark from you. (altough its your thing). I understand your opinion, but buying a RTR with a pullstart engine is not going to get you in the final. All different cars have their competition. The RTR pullstart 2000 gramms car can comply with the 200mm rules but you can imagine what happens when they do attend the races. Its not that easy. Better to ask all the racers what they want and not implying what you think we all want. we`ll see at the meeting i suppose.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:25 AM   #313
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It is not what all racers (including club level) wants. Racers do want a full field of drivers to have a competition to drive for and to have a nice atmosphere. If you set the rules to high people will stay away so no new blood will step in and for sure this is not what everybody wants.

A strict ruling is already proven as a reason why people stay away from nationals or even from clubs.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:16 AM   #314
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It is not what all racers (including club level) wants. Racers do want a full field of drivers to have a competition to drive for and to have a nice atmosphere. If you set the rules to high people will stay away so no new blood will step in and for sure this is not what everybody wants.

A strict ruling is already proven as a reason why people stay away from nationals or even from clubs.
Which part of the weight rule don't you understand???

You can be overweight and you do not get penalised... Got it yet!?

Some drivers race on a budget, they don't waste foam so they don't true tyres, they drive carefully and enjoy it. Others use an old cracked shells, some use older engines and they still enjoy the hobby and hang out with some of the best drivers in their countries and have a really good time.

At the top levels of RC we should make the ULTIMATE PERFORMANCE and create the ULTIMATE SPECTACLE to attract people who see the best drivers in our sport achieve a level of performance that makes the WOW FACTOR and understand why we spend our money this way.

With your attitude, we should run at 2.5 Kg, have one engine, 1 glow plug, 1 litre of fuel and 1 set of tyres, waste our money traveling to your home track, eat shit so we can watch you win!
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:46 AM   #315
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You can be overweight and you do not get penalised... Got it yet!?
Yes, I have got it all the time. But one thing you do think of (?) is that an over weighted car is actually penalized, not by a technical inspection but by the performance. And if the overweight is really affecting the performance or in a case of a less experienced driver where he thinks the overweight is an issue they need a high invest to create a lighter car.

Yes, I think the weight limit can be changed but now is not the time when the complete market has a high number of heavy cars. Last year it was not the time regarding the protests of many people and manufacturers as a result of moving it a year ahead and one year later the market did not change a lot so that is why there is a proposal for 1650 gram and not the still crazy 1550.
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