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Old 08-30-2012, 03:19 PM   #271
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Yes, Picco is also still running an MRX4X and runned the finals with the EC-A. The original MRX4 from many years ago was not much different than the MRX4X.

Look at the NT1, an old design with small improvements while all other brands are 1 or 2 generations further....
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #272
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Look at the NT1, an old design with small improvements while all other brands are 1 or 2 generations further....
Yep. Just an "optimized" MTX-3
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:56 PM   #273
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Yep. Just an "optimized" MTX-3
So true!!

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Old 08-30-2012, 10:59 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Yes, Picco is also still running an MRX4X and runned the finals with the EC-A. The original MRX4 from many years ago was not much different than the MRX4X.

Look at the NT1, an old design with small improvements while all other brands are 1 or 2 generations further....
Also Lamberto based his prototypes on MRX4 based contstructions before his new career with Capricorn.

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Old 08-31-2012, 12:53 AM   #275
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As I started this post, I would like to give my conclusion on the new rule, I race 1/8 and in france tire treatment is illegal and the weight was down to 2400g.
For the first point it failed.
Even if it's illegal, some drivers used tire treatment during nationals and no controls were done!! And machines and products have been best seller by distributors. So I guess next year we will use Efra rules concerning this point.

Concerning weight reduction, I think it's a good idea. On my strong and heavy Motonica, I only had to invest in LiFe batteries and titanium pivot balls, less than 100$! And I didn"t have to worry about loosing lead or even breaking something!
I used less belts and maybe the most fun thing is that making the five minutes qualifying was a lot easier!
Less weight can also mean less wear!! And even if you hit hard it's less kinetic energy against the wall...

So 1/10 driver think about it! I agree maybe 1550 is to much at once, but if one car manufacturer can do it why not!!
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:30 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRX4XXXX View Post
Also Lamberto based his prototypes on MRX4 based contstructions before his new career with Capricorn.

-X-
The NT1 is much closer to the MRX-4 than the MRX-3, but for sure it's definitely an evolution of the Mugen design.

But they've all gotta have 4 shocks, 4 wheels, a fuel tank and a chassis etc.. there has to be an optimal layout, look at full size F1 cars, how many of them have different layouts?
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:28 AM   #277
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Regarding the evolution of the 1/8 rules.

First of all we all want fast and driveable cars, and to hold the 1/8th class as the kingdoms class.

I think it therefore seems logical that a reduction in weight limit follow the evolution of the cars and materiales used ... 2400 gr seems to be be a fair limit nowadays.

Regarding fuel to 16% and 8 mm restictor i'm not sure ... the goal is to reduce noice, why not let the 25% and 9 mm restrictor go on as today, and set up a progressive reduction in noice over a couple of years, and force the manufactors to develop exhaust systems that reduce the noice - I'm sure the knowledge is there to reduce noice a good amount without any significant loss in engine performace, if none at all.

Best wishes; Jens
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:02 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romain_f View Post
For the first point it failed.
Even if it's illegal, some drivers used tire treatment during nationals and no controls were done!! And machines and products have been best seller by distributors. So I guess next year we will use Efra rules concerning this point.
Tire treatment is a huge discussion in the Netherlands. It is not allowed because when it was voted for most drivers were still against alowing it. Today more than 50% of the national drivers are doing it and there is nothing you can do about it. If you buy an expensive MiniRae sniffer then most people will swap to less detecting treatments like castor oils or other natural oils.
There is no way you can role it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jensroland View Post
Regarding fuel to 16% and 8 mm restictor i'm not sure ... the goal is to reduce noice, why not let the 25% and 9 mm restrictor go on as today, and set up a progressive reduction in noice over a couple of years, and force the manufactors to develop exhaust systems that reduce the noice - I'm sure the knowledge is there to reduce noice a good amount without any significant loss in engine performace, if none at all.

Best wishes; Jens
Look into large races before the 7 minute qualify rule. People were driving 16% and 8 or even 7mm ristrictors to get the 5 minutes. Did it make less noise? No!
The 30xx exhaust was a starting point but sadly there were to many problems. The MACH track in Heemstede (homebase of Sander de Graaf) was forced to use additional silencers which semed to work a lot but also had influence on the tuning of the engine so now today they only drive N21-3T basic engines to keep de noise down without tuning problems.
Te goal is now set to the HiPex exhaust which seemed to be based on a 2015 pipe with an extra housing arround it as a 4th chamber.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:49 AM   #279
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I could be wrong but I seem to remember that when the boat guys around here first started trying to reduce noise, they didn't change pipe rules. You could run the exact same pipe you always had, you just had to add an additional muffler that attached to the end. I wonder if something like that could be done for cars.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:37 PM   #280
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Like this:





As mentioned the MACH track has runned something like this and suddenly they stopped using this.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:48 PM   #281
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Quote:
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and force the manufactors to develop exhaust systems that reduce the noice .....
Will never happen...
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:00 PM   #282
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nono guys this are wrong ways to reduce noise. 30xx series imposed by EFRA was a flop and sure this silencers added to the pipes are not the way. Just ask yourself where can you mount this objects on 1/10 touring car ...???

I already said something before. I work in Hipex and test for them, and be sure we found a good way to make noise down. Our pipe is already EFRA approved as 2095 and it works like normal pipes in performances and fuel consumption.

The major problem is that people here are not sensible to the noise problems. I heard AMSCI men say "no, I dont see the problem of the noise like a real problem..yeah they close a track in Netherland but the rest is ok". But believe me the problem do exist in Italy also. Track are closing and many has problems with houses around and so. Many want to forget about the problem but we cant do it forever. We just have to believe that it's possible reduce the noise without kill the engines.

In the last month we worked on a 1/10 prototype also and it works. No problem with temperature and consumpion is normal. We made 104km/h top speed and the pipe has lot of punch (the same is for the 1/8 offroad one, so we have good feeling because both are giving the same impressions).
Next year I believe it will be the good one.

I cant say more now. We hope to close the tests in October and then I will tell you more!
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:03 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
Will never happen...
WRONG! HAHAHA

HIPEX is doing it!
..
the why is that we only make pipes. So we want to develop this product and we believe that all is possible.
Yeah if you ask to engine manufacturer..they only want more noise and more power and less cost to develop new products. Pipes are ok like this... why change??? -.-
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:45 PM   #284
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Keep at it Nicola, we do need to get the noise down.

I remember going to a race in New Jersey and after the last heat, I left to go get some food. Two miles away with a hill and lots of trees between me and the track, I could still hear the cars.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:12 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikoRacing View Post
nono guys this are wrong ways to reduce noise. 30xx series imposed by EFRA was a flop and sure this silencers added to the pipes are not the way. Just ask yourself where can you mount this objects on 1/10 touring car ...???

I already said something before. I work in Hipex and test for them, and be sure we found a good way to make noise down. Our pipe is already EFRA approved as 2095 and it works like normal pipes in performances and fuel consumption.

The major problem is that people here are not sensible to the noise problems. I heard AMSCI men say "no, I dont see the problem of the noise like a real problem..yeah they close a track in Netherland but the rest is ok". But believe me the problem do exist in Italy also. Track are closing and many has problems with houses around and so. Many want to forget about the problem but we cant do it forever. We just have to believe that it's possible reduce the noise without kill the engines.

In the last month we worked on a 1/10 prototype also and it works. No problem with temperature and consumpion is normal. We made 104km/h top speed and the pipe has lot of punch (the same is for the 1/8 offroad one, so we have good feeling because both are giving the same impressions).
Next year I believe it will be the good one.

I cant say more now. We hope to close the tests in October and then I will tell you more!
Totally agree with Niko, the Hipex 1/8th pipe is 10 or more db quieter then Sirio pipe and some 6-7db quieter then 2015 pipe.
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