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Old 02-24-2012, 12:13 AM   #226
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engines are cheaper now adays. Manufacturers have worked out that if they charge less, people will buy more.

if you buy an engine at $600 you will try your hardest to make that engine last 6 months

...if you can buy an engine for $400 you will ring it's neck off and buy two in 6 months

...guess what? The manufacturer has made $200 more out of you now than he did before

in marketing it's called the "just noticeable Difference"
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:48 AM   #227
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I bought a couple engines recently, for me to stay in the hobby, I 'need' them to last a fair bit more than 6 months.

For a lot of guys, the concept of maybe buying a new engine for the big one each season is fine, beyond that it just feels waaaay too expensive.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:43 AM   #228
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I bought engine`s from shops before and a RB12 RC edition was about 400 EURO. Than the exhaust and manifold another 100 euro.

If you order from webshops its cheaper but you won`t support the shops and in the end we lose their business. With the stock class the reseller did an effort , after been asked by the NOMAC, to get a low price to help the sport/hobby by presenting a price under 150 euro for engine with manifold en exhaust. Intended to help the sport and newcommers. It is not that the engine`s are getting cheaper though.
Now we find that experienced racers adopt the class to race at an lower price level. This year the rules were changed just for that reason. So there is a need for it, a cheaper race class.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:06 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
I bought a couple engines recently, for me to stay in the hobby, I 'need' them to last a fair bit more than 6 months.

For a lot of guys, the concept of maybe buying a new engine for the big one each season is fine, beyond that it just feels waaaay too expensive.
jason won 2 main titles with the same motor over 2 years and ran it at club racing....

you should be able to get more than 20L through them. look after it. dont lean it out.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:43 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djiewie View Post
I bought engine`s from shops before and a RB12 RC edition was about 400 EURO. Than the exhaust and manifold another 100 euro.

If you order from webshops its cheaper but you won`t support the shops and in the end we lose their business. With the stock class the reseller did an effort , after been asked by the NOMAC, to get a low price to help the sport/hobby by presenting a price under 150 euro for engine with manifold en exhaust. Intended to help the sport and newcommers. It is not that the engine`s are getting cheaper though.
Now we find that experienced racers adopt the class to race at an lower price level. This year the rules were changed just for that reason. So there is a need for it, a cheaper race class.
The problem is that new drivers are a bit afraid about the running costs when running a national while training sessions every free weekend does cost the same or even more. Also there is the thought that these cheap engines are not as fast as the high expensive engines. True, but how much is the difference? I believe one driver in the NK did reach podium with this stock engine so there is a prove of a good performance.

At the AMCA track we are running the N21-5T for the special price and still there were people wanting to run their expensive RB C10 engines. After one year most of them are over, they have seen that the price and port count isn't everything. Trying to introduce this same engine at the Baanbrekers track did give a large discussion, mainly caused by a local shop who has "his own" engine and saw his possible 3 selling engines go down and tryed to introduce several engines he had in stock but not for that low price. And yes, again a lot of drivers who do not believe this engine is capable to make laptimes in the slow 13's because 5 ports can not be as fast as 9 ports.....

That is a problem with this hobby, all the commercial bulltalk and toplevel drivers telling the same crap is making the driver with ony an hobby interest afraid and that is the thing we have to get rid off.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:44 PM   #231
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Hy there guys, i`ve overdone the weight saving bit as this year the limit is 1700. So to get more weight i came up with this "red team" side belt tensioner conversion to try out if its an improvement in drive train smoothness. I needed the weight on that side anyway to get the car balanced left to right. What do you think, will it work as intended?



New Efra rules-2012-02-28-21.54.11-2-.jpg

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Old 02-28-2012, 07:47 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Keeper View Post
jason won 2 main titles with the same motor over 2 years and ran it at club racing....

you should be able to get more than 20L through them. look after it. dont lean it out.
I agree!!
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djiewie View Post
Hy there guys, i`ve overdone the weight saving bit as this year the limit is 1700. So to get more weight i came up with this "red team" side belt tensioner conversion to try out if its an improvement in drive train smoothness. I needed the weight on that side anyway to get the car balanced left to right. What do you think, will it work as intended?



Attachment 885831

since we all like to look at picture`s
Nope... dual drag. Better to have a shorter belt or bigger bearing
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:28 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
At the AMCA track we are running the N21-5T for the special price and still there were people wanting to run their expensive RB C10 engines. After one year most of them are over, they have seen that the price and port count isn't everything. Trying to introduce this same engine at the Baanbrekers track did give a large discussion, mainly caused by a local shop who has "his own" engine and saw his possible 3 selling engines go down and tryed to introduce several engines he had in stock but not for that low price. And yes, again a lot of drivers who do not believe this engine is capable to make laptimes in the slow 13's because 5 ports can not be as fast as 9 ports.....
Roelof,

If you take the good performance out from N21-5T, how much is the engine life then? I have figured out, how to get them fast, but still on the learning curve on the reliability and lifetime..

Of course, it's different, if you run them box stock, but if you do, then they should not be compared to the fast engines performance anyway.

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ps. +2C and less than 1meters snow today =)
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:40 AM   #235
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I have runned it now for about 9 liters and my main bearing is gone. I do have some old crankcases with good bearings and will transplant the P/S/R set to one of them.

I can not tell much about the lifespan, it seems different P/S sets were made. The one seems to hold a good pinch and the other has no pinch after the 1st liter but in average it is shorter than the toplevel engines, for sure running it faster. Re-pinching is no problem to extract the lifespan, I already have done several.

With our prices you can get 4 to 5 engines for just one Flash PTS, and with that for sure you can run much longer than with one PTS
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:43 AM   #236
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Do you think the variance that your seeing between the two engines (21-5t) is purely due to the looser tolerances of the lesser engines to reduce scrap rate?
P.S. MRX4XXX, it's been around 26.6c here in Florida. You should move.
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:37 AM   #237
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I have seen a lot of differences in the N21-5T series that I would almost think that it is made out of left over parts but the 5 porter sleeve with M.E.S. is not used in any other engine so it must be a production. The funny thing is that all engines are almost the same on the track, the one must be set to rpm and the other with a different gearing to the torque.

Today it seems there is a more stability in the production, all engines of the last months so far I have seen have the same timings which is almost in the range of the old NovaMega EVO5 / RB C5 models.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:03 AM   #238
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Are those differance`s on the track not because different run in method`s have been used??
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:23 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MugenDrew View Post
Do you think the variance that your seeing between the two engines (21-5t) is purely due to the looser tolerances of the lesser engines to reduce scrap rate?
P.S. MRX4XXX, it's been around 26.6c here in Florida. You should move.
Defenatly agree with that. Tell it to my wife, then we can come

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Old 03-01-2012, 10:26 AM   #240
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No. One version has an higher exhaust port but has less timing on the crankshaft and the other has a lower exhaust port but a wider timing on the crankshaft.
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