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Old 08-11-2011, 10:19 AM   #1
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Default Cheating at EC A Champs in Luxembourg?

Just wanted to share this article with you and get your point of view...

http://www.rc-area.co.uk/blog/2011/0...in-luxembourg/
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:23 AM   #2
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the practice of limiting traction additives is much to hard to police. They should just make them legal because the difficulty of making sure no one uses additives is way to expensive and difficult. Just a thought, Control fuel is easier to police.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:55 PM   #3
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That looks alot like the Worlds in Miami this year. LOL
Just open it up and lets all move on.
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Old 08-11-2011, 04:48 PM   #4
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lol, why a Matrix box? why only a photo of part of him? I think somone has diffrent agenda here. I am open to Sauce or no Sauce, based on the rules of the event, but with out real evidence its just words.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:52 PM   #5
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Pirani RC in cooperation with F.V.S.S. announce a new odourless tyre additive called Futura 2012. Suitable for both rubber and foam tyres as well as asphalt and carpet tracks, the traction compound already showed its performance during the 2nd round of the Italian 1/8 scale on-road championships. The additive is best applied three hours before the run and comes in handy airtight cans with application brush.

Source: F.V.S.S. [fvssrc.com] and Pirani RC [andreapirani.com]



Wanna purchase some ...rubber gloves not included
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by CFowler View Post
Pirani RC in cooperation with F.V.S.S. announce a new odourless tyre additive called Futura 2012. Suitable for both rubber and foam tyres as well as asphalt and carpet tracks, the traction compound already showed its performance during the 2nd round of the Italian 1/8 scale on-road championships. The additive is best applied three hours before the run and comes in handy airtight cans with application brush.

Source: F.V.S.S. [fvssrc.com] and Pirani RC [andreapirani.com]



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Unfortunately, the Italian governing body legalized tyre saucing this year.
Therefore you can buy sauce from almost every hobby shop.
You can't blame them since it's legal there.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:46 PM   #7
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Another interesting letter....

http://rcspecial.com/news/?p=82046
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:51 PM   #8
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Sorry if I missed earlier info but why do they banned tyre sauce in the first place?
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Unfortunately, the Italian governing body legalized tyre saucing this year.
Therefore you can buy sauce from almost every hobby shop.
You can't blame them since it's legal there.

So why bother to make it odourless then....
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Clubman View Post
So why bother to make it odourless then....
Because the rest of Europe may not use it but still there are drivers who want to...
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:03 AM   #11
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What I find the most amusing among all this, is everyone saying, or justifying it as a argument to use or legalize tyre goo, but in reality this is likely a much more serious issue on people who are out to cheat.

Yes, it's 'cheating', really that it's a debate or not is pointless, this is racers looking for an edge over other racers by using something deemed as not allowed, just like many things are not allowed, even if you did make what is being done legal, the same racers would be out there next week finding the next big cheat.
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Last edited by Bishop; 08-12-2011 at 11:13 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
What I find the most amusing among all this, is everyone saying, or justifying it as a argument to use or legalize tyre goo, but in reality this is likely a much more serious issue on people who are out to cheat.

Yes, it's 'cheating', really that it's a debate or not is pointless, this is racers looking for an edge over other racers by using something deemed as not allowed, just like may things are not allowed, even if you did make what is being done legal, the same racers would be out there next week finding the next big cheat.
There's no SKILL in this form of winning, it's just product knowledge. That is what makes the arguments and causes the problems.

Those drivers that want to cheat with sauce (up to Italy to do their own thing), then they obviously can also fill first tank with > 16% Nitro, use oxygenated fuel additives, add weight between pit lane and scrutineering after heats.. and so on.

And this is what WE THINK of each other and it's not good for RC. The worst part is that the top drivers are accused of also participating and it's very sad for the sport and the drivers to reject their true skills.

So before you think sauce is good or bad, think what it does to RC, think why we want to win fairly.

Otherwise, in the words of CARS it's then ...

"Just an empty cup!"
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
What I find the most amusing among all this, is everyone saying, or justifying it as a argument to use or legalize tyre goo, but in reality this is likely a much more serious issue on people who are out to cheat.

Yes, it's 'cheating', really that it's a debate or not is pointless, this is racers looking for an edge over other racers by using something deemed as not allowed, just like may things are not allowed, even if you did make what is being done legal, the same racers would be out there next week finding the next big cheat.
Yes, in races where it is banned, it is cheating. That's not what the debate is about. The debate is about whether or not it is worth continuing the ban. As of right now, there is no quick, simple, reliable way to tech for it. Because of that, some people are going to do it. The only way to make it fair is to allow it so the honorable people can also do it without cheating.

Now I understand the point of those that don't want to allow it. I would prefer to do without too but the only ways I can see to enforce it are MUCH more a pain, expense and inconvenience than using it is. So just end all the controversy and allow it.
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:16 AM   #14
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I'ts a difficult subject.

Because when they keep banning it, there will still be people using it because it not detectable and the authoritities () have now way to prevent it/control it.

If they do not ban it and make it open, the people who have been using it for years have tons more experience and knowledge then the newbies of saucing.

its not all about the sauce to use, but also how to use it. put it on 30 minutes before or 2 days before? let it dry of put it in an oven (yes, in Italy they bring an oven to a race) time/temperature/sauce it all depends on track and weather conditions as well.

the only way to keep it "controlled" are controlled tires. Just like the fuel at the worlds but then with tires. then you get alot of other discussions like: which supplier? but the IFMAR got the controlled fuel also arranged on their WC so why not with tires during the race? thats they ONLY way IMO.

I'm against tire sauce, just because of the extra setup and knowledge you need to know of the sauce and tires. In electric it is allowed but the advantages you have with the right kind of sauce is enormous. Then it has nothing to do with driving skills, but just who has the best tires/sauce combination. because all drivers on a euro's of worlds can drive! and it all comes down to the small differences like this.

in 1/8th scale the people who are cheating with tire sauce do not know what the impact is for all the other - not sponsored drivers - they don't have and use the sauce, but they don't understand why they are that much slower. now they know! and alot of them are quitting 1/8th scale driving on these races just because of that! but you have to remember at all times that the "normal-non-sponsored-driver" is paying for the sponsored drivers to keep doing their hobby/job!

But some people just aren't "thinkers" they are more like do it now and think about the consequences later...
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
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There's no SKILL in this form of winning, it's just product knowledge. That is what makes the arguments and causes the problems.
I agree, it is a problem which needs to be addressed.
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