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Old 08-11-2011, 12:23 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by romain_f View Post

So let's go for "Parc ferme", like in miami. The problem is for organisers... No more radio impound but tire impound now!!
That is what they already did Romain. Until the moment that racers showed that even sauced tires are tested negative on additive

Parc Ferme will only work if EFRA / IFMAR buy's and sell's the tires.
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:38 PM   #92
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Do most R/C organizations even have the capability of detecting additives?
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #93
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No, they can't.
For the Euro in luxembourg italians went to see efra and showed them a few sets of tires, all were treated but only a few were positif for the test!!
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:30 AM   #94
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the guys who were using sauced tires were acting against the rules and should be punished, nothing more and nothing less.
And the top drivers of who the mechanic was "caught in action" didn't got this punishment, because EFRA said they where not sure if they used those tires during Qualifying or the Finals.... yeah sure, they sauced them for the next national race!...

But if you or me would do that on an EFRA event, for sure we will get that 5 year ban!
EFRA is just afraid of giving a ban to a top level driver...
So in the end, yes the manufacturers have the control....

I say, as privateer, lets BAN all big races for a year!
And I mean a complete year!
Just do some clubracing, to support your club, but not more....
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:18 AM   #95
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I remember reading somewhere, some words out of a major euro electric event, along the lines of, the tyre doping techniques were becoming so complex, that it was a chore and a half to do, and get it wrong and you were half a second off the pace...

It was like clean, treat, bake, re-treat, and for that event one compound was 'the' product to have, so it sounded like you were spending half your setup time figuring out how best to dope your tyres...

So seriously, they/we open the doors to compounds, and next really big event you go to it's a added chore of 'the' latest compound, application method, and hoping the guy next to you did not find a better method that you?.


I still say this is a 'cheating' issue at core, it's almost got nothing to do with doping tyres, it's about having an advantage no one else does, which is key in some peoples minds, allow it and cheaters will just find the next cheat, they don't want to dope tyres specifically, they want an unfair advantage on everyone else, that is the whole point.

Hence why allowing it long term is pointless, you add complex aspects to something already complex, only to then maybe have to deal with and legalize the next big cheat.

RC amazes me in that one area in general, I have never seen a hobby/sport where so many people are so badly looking for a murky advantage over others, for whatever reason, other than some empty bragging right or $2 trophy.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:38 AM   #96
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I say, as privateer, lets BAN all big races for a year!
And I mean a complete year!
Just do some clubracing, to support your club, but not more....
True, you can see this with electrics, if people are not in favour with the setted rules they do not show up. If it is healthy is a different question and what is happening with the saucegate is not healthy.
As with our Dutch electric touring all clubs have their own rules about motor and ESC, making a national with just one set of rules is difficult. The same here with Italy making it legal while on Europian level it is forbidden.

If you have punished all topdrivers there is nothing less to race because big events without big names are not interesting. Manufacturers like Shepherd did say their word about this and anounced what will happen if someone is caught, all manufacturers must be like them so the drivers must be afraid of their sponsors so the EFRA can focus on his main job organising races.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:07 AM   #97
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RC amazes me in that one area in general, I have never seen a hobby/sport where so many people are so badly looking for a murky advantage over others, for whatever reason, other than some empty bragging right or $2 trophy. Quoted from Bishop.
It's not about the trophy for sure. It's about the number 1. There is only one number one and thats why it is so special. We all want to be that number.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:35 AM   #98
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Manufacturers like Shepherd did say their word about this and anounced what will happen if someone is caught, all manufacturers must be like them so the drivers must be afraid of their sponsors so the EFRA can focus on his main job organising races.
And so should it be! As far as I can recall also Mugen did the same but not so many hard words.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:00 AM   #99
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RC amazes me in that one area in general, I have never seen a hobby/sport where so many people are so badly looking for a murky advantage over others, for whatever reason, other than some empty bragging right or $2 trophy. Quoted from Bishop.
It's not about the trophy for sure. It's about the number 1. There is only one number one and thats why it is so special. We all want to be that number.
As stated by me before, it is not that nr1 position but on what distance these drivers are sugesting not using any additives, if it is really 0.4 seconds then the distance is not that much. And what about the people on my level, could I be listed higher in the ranking?
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:07 AM   #100
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And so should it be! As far as I can recall also Mugen did the same but not so many hard words.
And I have heard stories in contradiction for 1 of the 2 mentioned names, so lets just not mention brand names.... because names not mentioned are in the wrong light now.

It had something to do with a tyrebrand #1 sponsored driver who got tyres put in his hand from brand #2, together with an eye wink...
So no, this driver was not "caught" or even seen while saucing tyres, but was driving prepared stuff...
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:31 AM   #101
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And I have heard stories in contradiction for 1 of the 2 mentioned names, so lets just not mention brand names.... because names not mentioned are in the wrong light now.

It had something to do with a tyrebrand #1 sponsored driver who got tyres put in his hand from brand #2, together with an eye wink...
So no, this driver was not "caught" or even seen while saucing tyres, but was driving prepared stuff...
Indeed... You are getting the point with the last statement.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:44 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
As stated by me before, it is not that nr1 position but on what distance these drivers are sugesting not using any additives, if it is really 0.4 seconds then the distance is not that much. And what about the people on my level, could I be listed higher in the ranking?
A 22 lap race you would lose 8.8 seconds. How would that improve your standing if you were "cheating"? 17.6 second lap times thats half a lap. Is that enough to get you another lap?
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:22 PM   #103
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A 22 lap race you would lose 8.8 seconds. How would that improve your standing if you were "cheating"? 17.6 second lap times thats half a lap. Is that enough to get you another lap?
I have been at a few races where an 8.8 second improvement would put me in the A instead of the C.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:41 PM   #104
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True, take the qualification list of an EC or even the WC and you will see the first 20-30 drivers can be within 8.8 seconds.
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:31 AM   #105
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ok thanks, i thought you maybe had some other industrial brand that is being used in real car racing or karts or maybe something else. I am not sure a normal can of tire sauce can last long when you have to apply it on 1/8 tires. Those are huge even compared to pro10 tires. But i might be mistaken.
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Youre mistaken, ever heared about injecting?
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Nope? Please explain! It might be usefull for me.


ps:
i am sure it isn't as simple as injecting the juice in the tire with a syringe is it?

i am still interested can you please explain... in PM is ok as well. I am not in the 1/8 onroad class so not going to use it there
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