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Old 12-10-2011, 08:32 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Kyle Hazell View Post
Additive - So much has been written about this....

At the end of the day it has been made legal and in 6 months time it probably wont even be a point of discussion, at least this creates a level playing ground for all drivers going forward.

A lot has been said indicating the use of additive will drive people away from the sport due to the complexity of it all......

Does anyone really think this is true????

Look at the complexity and rediculous costs to enter gas racing these days, sure you can start off in 10th scale, but seriously the complexity of the modern cars nowdays sure out weighs the addititve argument...

The biggest problem I see in the sport at the moment is there is no "feeder class" to gas racing thats cost effective to allow the younger group of racers i.e 16 and under to enter the sport an progress when they are ready....

Me personally I don't see the above being addressed and I think this is a far bigger issue than the use of additive going forward...
Kyle you and i know what it is like to race on a VHT'ed track. If applied properly it results in better racing, closer racing, and less worry, the setup windows are wider which means the "average" guy tends to do better. VHT applied incorrectly might mean traction rolling, but if the club takes a "less is more" approach to application, and re applies only if needed then VHT or suger water would solve this mess. In the electric events OS they soemtiems spray sugar water also.

the problem with adding another ingredient to the racing prep proceedure is that the new guys will be even more turned off from going into the high end of racing. Currently our hobby, from the outside looks very obsessive and ritualistic. A new person sees all that is needed to perform, they perform a quick cost analysis in their mind and think "what's the point". This is the real reason we have dropping numbers in nitro. Add another silly tyre prep method which requires a weeks preperation....and i mean...come on it gets quite silly.

yes there is no feeder class, that's true, but do you really think beginners will want to feed themselves up to the top league when silly and obsessive actions are required to keep up?

Also in reference to the feeder class, back 6 to 8 years ago, nitro in general was much more accessable purely because of the lower costs requried to compete. Numbers in this hobby are dropping because the cost to participate is increasing exponentially. Tyre prep silliness won't reduce the costs it will increase it.

I've come back to the hobby after a few years away...with a clear head of what this hobby consists of, the costs the time, the prep required these days...i'm not sure if i enjoy it as much anymore It just isn't fun if you need to sacrifice the weekend before the weekend of racing to prep your gear, i mean we have lives outside of RC i don't want my hobby dictating to me what i do the weekend before a race.

Take the pain out of prep. Representitive bodies should educate all clubs on how to prep a track with sugar water or VHT. Place tutorials online on Youtube. Org bodies should also stipulate that tracks need to be sugar watered or VHT'ed for all large official events. This is the easier way to go. If clubs take a "less is more" approach with application they won't have a problem. apply it consistently, evenly and sparingly and the track is usually good to go, re apply if needed.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:27 AM   #152
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yup nothing will change...everyone will be .5 second faster and so is the fast guy
the saucer will be .5 second faster than the not saucer
it means more money only to be in the bottom of the list with .5 second faster lap time
Is it?
I can not find the link anymore but somewhere on a blog I did read Collari made some preparations for a national, 15 sets of tires treated with several sauces to have some options and none did work for him.

So yes, I do believe people drive faster but if the sauce is making it equal.... NO! (not mentioning the work and costs) The sauce will be an extra factor in the setup so you do need to try them all to be sure you have the best one....
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:35 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by romain_f View Post
ok but what's VHT?
Very Hot Track??
Romain,
VHT means "very high traction". Hard to come by in Europe and it can be a bit much.

Jonkers (maker of Tornado fuel) in Holland make a track additive called "Track Max"

Good old sugar water will do the trick and it is in no way toxic. (maybe to some over weight ants :-) )

Last edited by stefan; 12-11-2011 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:08 AM   #154
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Romain,
VHT means "very high traction". Hard to come by in Europe and it can be a bit much.
VHT is runing around $400.00 for a 55 gallon drum......with a deal.....
Jonkers (maker of Tornado fuel) in Holland make a track additive called "Track Max"

Good old sugar water will do the trick and it is in no way toxic. (maybe to some over weight ants :-) )
Grape soda isnt to bad either.....
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:50 AM   #155
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Grape soda isnt to bad either.....
Sorry man, we don't have that kind of 99.99% sugar solution over here
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:00 PM   #156
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Sorry man, we don't have that kind of 99.99% sugar solution over here
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:29 PM   #157
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Found the VHT in Europe, 1116 pounds for a 205 liter drum, ouch....

How much is needed to spray the track once, and how many times does this have to be repeated?.

The stuff Tornado sells isn't cheap either, 40 for 10 liters.
According to them you will need 10 till 20 liters to spray the track once.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:27 PM   #158
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Found the VHT in Europe, 1116 pounds for a 205 liter drum, ouch....

How much is needed to spray the track once, and how many times does this have to be repeated?.

The stuff Tornado sells isn't cheap either, 40 for 10 liters.
According to them you will need 10 till 20 liters to spray the track once.
It all depends on what type of sprayer & what you use to dilute it with also the dimensions of the track. It is a learning process to get it right
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:20 PM   #159
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So as it stands, saucing is only legal in Europe (EFRA) at the moment.

I wonder what will happen at the IFMAR level? Will the other 3 blocks (ROAR, FEMCA, FAMAR) vote yes or no on this?

What happens if the proposal to allow saucing doesn't get passed and is still illegal at IFMAR events? Will they introduce a control tire?
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:41 PM   #160
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I think saucing is roar legal, or there is no rule against it
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:23 PM   #161
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found this..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CPR-Insta-Tr...ht_1753wt_1263
don't know the performance
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:27 PM   #162
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I have sprayed a medium sized track with 1.5 gallons of left over VHT dilluted with 3 gallons of methanol. This light spray provided decent traction for not much cost for a two day race.

Even better was 3 gallons VHT / 3 gallons meth. Provided massive traction with a little left over for a light touch up on the second day.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:28 PM   #163
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I think saucing is roar legal, or there is no rule against it
It was legal at the nats and many people tried it.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:11 PM   #164
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For 300m(18secs) track ==> 40litres of Lidl-cola (it has the most sugar) and 40l of water mixed. we don't use the spray method, because it takes too much time. Instead we use a normal watering can with a special 2.5metres wide selfmade nozzle. It takes less than 0.5 hours for 2 people to treat the track.

This gives the track all the tracktion ever needed, and a non-toxic solution.

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Old 01-23-2012, 11:40 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
the problem with adding another ingredient to the racing prep proceedure is that the new guys will be even more turned off from going into the high end of racing. Currently our hobby, from the outside looks very obsessive and ritualistic. A new person sees all that is needed to perform, they perform a quick cost analysis in their mind and think "what's the point". This is the real reason we have dropping numbers in nitro. Add another silly tyre prep method which requires a weeks preperation....and i mean...come on it gets quite silly.

yes there is no feeder class, that's true, but do you really think beginners will want to feed themselves up to the top league when silly and obsessive actions are required to keep up?

Numbers in this hobby are dropping because the cost to participate is increasing exponentially. Tyre prep silliness won't reduce the costs it will increase it.

I've come back to the hobby after a few years away...with a clear head of what this hobby consists of, the costs the time, the prep required these days...i'm not sure if i enjoy it as much anymore It just isn't fun if you need to sacrifice the weekend before the weekend of racing to prep your gear, i mean we have lives outside of RC i don't want my hobby dictating to me what i do the weekend before a race.

Take the pain out of prep.

Tom I whole heartedly agree with your sentiments.

I too came back to RC recently after many years out. I use to race off-road electric when I was a kid. I jumped into 1/8th I.C. off-road spending some serious coin. But here in Sydney unfortunately we don't have what I would consider "decent" track for it. I knew about the on-road track at Moorebank and always liked it whenever I saw a race there. So after a few months after selling my gear I wanted to get back in this time 1/8th I.C. on-road to be specific, but all this tire stuff has really turned me off.

After seeing 2 and 3 guys working on one of the front runners car during the recent Nationals in Melbourne (tire pitstop) I thought are you serious? Who am I kidding, I just want to build my car, race and have some fun. But in saying that I don't feel like being lapped by some kid who brings the whole team from NASA with him just to race little toy cars. Mate it's not even the money for me, but the time required to prepare for a raceday would turn me into a "divorced no life hermit".

I like this hobby but not that much. So even though I'm just 1 tiny dot on the landscape, I was one tiny dot willing to spend thousands of dollars to play in this hobby, but the time and BS is just way to much for me. I'll probably go back to 1/8th I.C. off-road, just wish Sydney had more than one single track to choose from.

Sometimes it just feels like those at the decision and business level of gas on-road RC racing don't want new players/customers or the hobby to grow. Things need to be simplified and become much more cost friendly, not over complicated and time consuming.

Last edited by John.; 01-24-2012 at 12:13 AM.
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