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Old 06-23-2011, 08:26 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by GMartinez View Post
just recheck your clutch settings something got to be off gap,spring tension,endplay
Every race I rechecked shimming and endplay and had it checked by fellow racers. It still bogged halfway thru the main. I think the spring in this kit is just too weak.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:28 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
An old spring will do it too. They can get weak when hot and get boggy.
Brand New car out of the box and did it from the start. I battled through two midwest series races with it acting up. I put an Orion spring in it and tightened it to hades and it ran AWESOME for the first 15 min of the main. Then went back to the same old problem.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:37 AM   #48
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the shepherd spring is preferred over the mugen springs. but you didn't mention which shoe you are using. i have most experience with the yellow shoe (mugen or shepherd)
You know I never thought to much into the shoe. I am running the Black Shoe currently. I yellow shoe could help some. It is possible that the black shoe is slipping on the clutchbell causing it to wear away so fast as well as bog. I have checked over my clutchbell and everything looks good on that.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
Ok, here we go.

Use the light weight fly-weights and a brown or white shoe. Gap must be 0,6mm with a new shoe. Turn the tention-nut to 3,3 - 3,4mm from the top of the bolt.

If you use a new bell, take care of rinsing the insight to get a good contact area. (rins a way the coating)

Thats it
What endplay? The tension nut was set at 3.5mm when I first setr up the clutch. gap was .2mm and I was using the black shoe.

I will give this a try
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:57 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Could be a tuning issue too. Sounds like a hot motor.

I run the Mugen clutch so can't help with Shepherd clutch set-up. Nothing wrong with the Shepherd clutch, I just use the Mugen because I have a dozen of them and know how to set them up.
I tuned the heck out of the car and nothing helped. But I tell you what I had the same problem initially with the mugen clutch and was able to tune that back to normal.

I really like the way the mugen clutch handled. I am about to get an Eleven kit since my backstretch incident So I will try that clutch again and fall nback on the mugen if I need to.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:25 AM   #51
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What endplay? The tension nut was set at 3.5mm when I first setr up the clutch. gap was .2mm and I was using the black shoe.

I will give this a try
More gap. At least .5mm.
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:19 AM   #52
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More gap. At least .5mm.

I later tried to put a higher gap. With the same result. I was looking at a set-up sheet for my home track from Cyrul and unless I misread it, and he set his gap to .15mm
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:13 AM   #53
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I later tried to put a higher gap. With the same result. I was looking at a set-up sheet for my home track from Cyrul and unless I misread it, and he set his gap to .15mm
That sounds more like an endplay adjustment, not gap. You want at least .5mm gap between the shoe and the bell. Once that is set, you can adjust the play down to .1 to .2 with shims behind the bell.
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:18 AM   #54
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This is from Cyrul's site. It's old but still applies to most all axial style clutches.

#6 - First, we will set the “gap”. The “gap” is the distance between the clutch shoe and the clutch bell when it is at its farthest position from the shoe as possible. Install the clutch bell onto the crankshaft without the inner bearing – this will allow the clutch bell to make contact with the shoe without the bearing stopping it. Now, install the outer bearing, thrust assembly (including thrust retainer) and the 3mm screw. Tighten the screw down and check the clutch bell. There should be plenty of endplay that will give us the room to shim the “gap” properly. To shim the gap, place thin shims over the thrust retainer to the outside of the thrust assembly. Creating a smoother clutch engagement and feel usually yields a .35mm-.50mm gap setting. To create a more aggressive bottom end feel the gap usually yields a .55mm-.70mm setting. Setting less than a .35mm is not ideal as it can lead to clutch drag, especially as the clutch heats up. This can lead to excessive heat and a glazed clutch shoe. Setting more than .70mm is dangerous for several reasons. In a hard impact it is more likely for the clutch weights to be ejected from the clutch – seems impossible but it has been done!! Also, the .70mm can lead to what is called “spring bind” where basically the spring doesn't have enough compression travel so it won't allow the clutch shoe to come out far enough to fully engage the clutch – this can lead to premature wear and failure of the clutch. Generally, .35mm-.50mm is great for finals and controlling wheel spin on a slippery race track and .55mm-.70 is great for qualifying and high traction applications.
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:21 AM   #55
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After you do that, here is the play adjustment instructions. Doesn't really make a lot of difference, just make sure the bell doesn't rub the shoe but still has some free play so it isn't binding.

#7 - Setting the endplay is the next step. Remove the thrust assembly and clutch bell (be careful to keep the shims together for the gap). Install the bearing that goes into the backside of the clutch bell and slide it onto the crankshaft. When you do this your clutch bell should not drag on the clutch shoe. If it does then you need to add shims before sliding on the inner clutch bell bearing and clutch bell. This is important for two reasons – If the clutch bell is allowed to drag on the shoe it will lead to excessive heat, glazing and possibly wear as well as improper disengagement causing higher engine temps and a much harder job for the brakes to slow the car. You can also use this as an adjustment as a smoother feel is generated with a .1mm-.2mm endplay setting. A more aggressive setting is .2mm-.4mm. This is a driver preference and really doesn't make much of a difference between a qualifying and final clutch set-up.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:00 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by JJBinks View Post
You know I never thought to much into the shoe. I am running the Black Shoe currently. I yellow shoe could help some. It is possible that the black shoe is slipping on the clutchbell causing it to wear away so fast as well as bog. I have checked over my clutchbell and everything looks good on that.
before swapping shoe material, try a standard gap and endplay. 0.6mm gap and 0.2 endplay.

first set the gap (the movement without the inner bearing in the endbell), then set the endplay (movement with all up assembly).

if you set the gap too tight then the shoe can overheat, and the clutch can lose some agressiveness. a rapid accumulation of shoe colored dust is a tell. (the yellow shoe if handy for this, the black shoe dust is lost in the foam tire debris!)
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:37 AM   #57
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My teamdrivers normally go to the edge of spring-tention, they tune it such a way that the clutch has a little slip during one lap. They normally heat up the clutch during this first lap by engaging a lot. After this lap it engages quite agressive, you need to get used to this.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:01 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by avs View Post
before swapping shoe material, try a standard gap and endplay. 0.6mm gap and 0.2 endplay.

first set the gap (the movement without the inner bearing in the endbell), then set the endplay (movement with all up assembly).

if you set the gap too tight then the shoe can overheat, and the clutch can lose some agressiveness. a rapid accumulation of shoe colored dust is a tell. (the yellow shoe if handy for this, the black shoe dust is lost in the foam tire debris!)
I will do that. Your right about the black shoe. I cant tell the difference. Stupid foam...
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:02 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
My teamdrivers normally go to the edge of spring-tention, they tune it such a way that the clutch has a little slip during one lap. They normally heat up the clutch during this first lap by engaging a lot. After this lap it engages quite agressive, you need to get used to this.
By the edge of spring tension do you mean they don't tighten very much at all leaving it rather "loose"?
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:12 AM   #60
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No, he is saying tighten it down until the clutch actually starts to slip a bit when cold. Any tighter and it wouldn't work well at all; hence "on the edge".
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