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Old 04-16-2012, 02:09 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Solara View Post
Here is my opinion...I raced last year Byron with a rent a ride Kyosho IGT version 1 with a 6 gallon used engine (unknown RB buggy engine I was told) and some heavily used Kyosho rubber....did very good and I really like this class, after spending most of my time racing 200mm Nitro TC and even 1/8th ON ROAD...and decided there is no way I can afford to race those, then I changed to electric. And then last year, I thought I can race NITRO again and brought a used DM1 SPEC, a spec pull start engine, a set of ALPHA medium and thought I should be OK for the GT racing...

After seeing these thread about a "set" rule...I am sure, I am not going to be racing simply because this GT rules, is now going toward to the 1/8th ON ROAD or TC rule. May not be now, but I am sure within a year, it would...

Some of these new GT cars are $550 plus for a roller....what happened to the whole original idea of the GT on road class? I remember those were around $250 for roller and $400 is RTR. What happened...? Don't even bother to ask me about those belt designed GT car...all I can say is...WHY?

2-speed is needed...it is NOT really about the speed, it is all about NOT to kill those RTR pull start motor. You have a 225 foot long straight and you cannot let those $150 pull start engine to rev 30,000 for 3-4 second on the 1st gear....you need to shift to 2nd gear to elongate the life of the motor...the extra speed is actually a BONUS, but the idea of 2-speed is not to blow up your $150 pull start RTR motor.

I know the original people who drew out the original rule of MWS....Ron actually tested about 10 (or actually less) spec engine and named these the CHOICE of the engine....you just have to pick one, might as well ask around which one is the fastest and buy that one...SIMPLE RULE and it is a GOOD RULE....what happened to all these TURBO PLUG, 5 ports, 7 ports Ceremic bearing $$$$ stuff that I see right now...? Seriously....are we going back to 200mm nitro and 1/8th on road for those kinda power? On a funny looking GT car that used to be a BUGGY...? The rule was stated it must have the PULL START device on the engine, and that pull start device is the ORIGINAL parts of that specific engine...you cannot add a pull start device on a $500 on road engine and called it out a spec engine....

I know we all should have a freedom of choice...however, if there are too much freedom, there will not be a unity. Look at the USVTA (electric vintage class of racing)...6-7 years of running, and hardly ppl will ask for rule change because the rule is simple....1 brand of TIRES, 1 choice of shore, 1 brand/1 model of motor and very limited choice of ESC....we let driver to choose their car from $50 used 10 years car to a $550 brand new latest chassis......however, the different is still the same, best driver win, not the most expensive gear....

Now...racing outdoor is a little different, and this time, GT is not just USA, it is the whole world business...........from what I am seeing, I think to limit the cost of the chassis is simply impossible. Driver A can afford the $550 roller, fine by me....it is definitely a better quality car and I think I can live with that. However, I see there are 2 things that need to address and SOMEOME (or organization) should concentrate of these 2 thing....

(1) ENGINE and (2) BODY.....thats it.

Also....there should NOT be a outlaw, PRO or spec class....it is NITRO racing, the more classes it divided, the more it will go down on interest. Look at nitro TC and 1/8th on road now.....electric brushless completed took over that.

Engine - I wish they should concentrate on the number of PORT and limited to standard plugs only....leave the Turbo plugs engine to TC and 1/8th, that belongs to those, not GT..........once it limited to ports and plug, the PRICE is not a problem no more, I would never seen a 3 port non turbo plug engine costing more then $280.....and we don't need to name names on these engine, if the brand X engine is 3 ports, non turbo and tested by others and proved it is the fastest thing in the market, everyone will buy that engine X.

BODY - that is a tough one. Are we talking about GT now? Or BTTC/WTCC or JMTC or whatever TC racing.....? Because, when IGT came out...it is all based on GT cars, no matter 2 doors or 4 doors, it is still a GT cars body shape. And those LOLA type embedded wing design should NOT be legal as there are no such GT car was designed that way. If someone need to prove it, please provide a picture of a LEGAL GT chassis (real car) that has the LeMan type of rear portion and they are still legal to race against other like Nissan GT-R, Ferrari, Audi or Bentley....

That is my 2 cents...the rest of the rule are pretty solid right now. Tires compound and width can be open as you don't need all the shore and brand of tires to race 1 event...

I know somoene might not agree with me, but I am here to share my opinion and would like to see a better solution on this class soon. Because from what I am seeing, these rule does not looking good for the future.
THANK YOU THANK YOU.....
I like the port and plug angle. never thought of that.. there will always be loop holes and unhappy people it's racing... but I like and agree with your direction.
thank for your 2 cents...
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:33 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
Solara,

This thread has nothing to do with your Midwest Series or Byron’s or Leisure Hours event rules, so don’t let it discourage you on GT racing.

Clete was advised at the start of this thread that the oldest and most respected GT group was you guys up in the Midwest. At one point he agreed with the Midwest Series GT class rules, but they have decided to go down the road of division instead. Its their call, good luck with that.

Hope to meet up with you in Joliet for the Byron Fuels Challenge event next month.
No division, respect or disrespect.. we wanted to start racing the GT class here in the northwest.. we wanted some ideas... we got them... we used them.... we still have the same rules as last year... not rocket science.. We wanted to grow a class; we did so... if want to come race with us great, if not, great... we are having a blast with them, if the class dies nationaly due to internal class fighting .. fine.. We will keep racing them as long as we can get parts and paticipents... when the class dies, I will go race open 1/8scale.. I already purchased a car.. I have a 1/10 as well..
Bottom line is we are enjoing it... we asked Timezone if they would let us have a class at the GP ... they said sure( bless their hearts).. invite some guys to come up... we did.. we had a great time... If they want to come again.. great.. if not fine... if TimeZone says NO CLASS due to Rules and lack of participation ... FINE..they will look at another class to run... no skin off my ass. TRUE, IT was my idea to invite everyone one here... if you dont want to come DON'T...
But dont ball and bitch about it... Just shut the Hell up and say home!


Jeff and everyone else that does not want to come and have fun... Please stay home.. it's not hard to figure out..
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:43 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solara View Post
Here is my opinion...I raced last year Byron with a rent a ride Kyosho IGT version 1 with a 6 gallon used engine (unknown RB buggy engine I was told) and some heavily used Kyosho rubber....did very good and I really like this class, after spending most of my time racing 200mm Nitro TC and even 1/8th ON ROAD...and decided there is no way I can afford to race those, then I changed to electric. And then last year, I thought I can race NITRO again and brought a used DM1 SPEC, a spec pull start engine, a set of ALPHA medium and thought I should be OK for the GT racing...

After seeing these thread about a "set" rule...I am sure, I am not going to be racing simply because this GT rules, is now going toward to the 1/8th ON ROAD or TC rule. May not be now, but I am sure within a year, it would...

Some of these new GT cars are $550 plus for a roller....what happened to the whole original idea of the GT on road class? I remember those were around $250 for roller and $400 is RTR. What happened...? Don't even bother to ask me about those belt designed GT car...all I can say is...WHY?

2-speed is needed...it is NOT really about the speed, it is all about NOT to kill those RTR pull start motor. You have a 225 foot long straight and you cannot let those $150 pull start engine to rev 30,000 for 3-4 second on the 1st gear....you need to shift to 2nd gear to elongate the life of the motor...the extra speed is actually a BONUS, but the idea of 2-speed is not to blow up your $150 pull start RTR motor.

I know the original people who drew out the original rule of MWS....Ron actually tested about 10 (or actually less) spec engine and named these the CHOICE of the engine....you just have to pick one, might as well ask around which one is the fastest and buy that one...SIMPLE RULE and it is a GOOD RULE....what happened to all these TURBO PLUG, 5 ports, 7 ports Ceremic bearing $$$$ stuff that I see right now...? Seriously....are we going back to 200mm nitro and 1/8th on road for those kinda power? On a funny looking GT car that used to be a BUGGY...? The rule was stated it must have the PULL START device on the engine, and that pull start device is the ORIGINAL parts of that specific engine...you cannot add a pull start device on a $500 on road engine and called it out a spec engine....

I know we all should have a freedom of choice...however, if there are too much freedom, there will not be a unity. Look at the USVTA (electric vintage class of racing)...6-7 years of running, and hardly ppl will ask for rule change because the rule is simple....1 brand of TIRES, 1 choice of shore, 1 brand/1 model of motor and very limited choice of ESC....we let driver to choose their car from $50 used 10 years car to a $550 brand new latest chassis......however, the different is still the same, best driver win, not the most expensive gear....

Now...racing outdoor is a little different, and this time, GT is not just USA, it is the whole world business...........from what I am seeing, I think to limit the cost of the chassis is simply impossible. Driver A can afford the $550 roller, fine by me....it is definitely a better quality car and I think I can live with that. However, I see there are 2 things that need to address and SOMEOME (or organization) should concentrate of these 2 thing....

(1) ENGINE and (2) BODY.....thats it.

Also....there should NOT be a outlaw, PRO or spec class....it is NITRO racing, the more classes it divided, the more it will go down on interest. Look at nitro TC and 1/8th on road now.....electric brushless completed took over that.

Engine - I wish they should concentrate on the number of PORT and limited to standard plugs only....leave the Turbo plugs engine to TC and 1/8th, that belongs to those, not GT..........once it limited to ports and plug, the PRICE is not a problem no more, I would never seen a 3 port non turbo plug engine costing more then $280.....and we don't need to name names on these engine, if the brand X engine is 3 ports, non turbo and tested by others and proved it is the fastest thing in the market, everyone will buy that engine X.

BODY - that is a tough one. Are we talking about GT now? Or BTTC/WTCC or JMTC or whatever TC racing.....? Because, when IGT came out...it is all based on GT cars, no matter 2 doors or 4 doors, it is still a GT cars body shape. And those LOLA type embedded wing design should NOT be legal as there are no such GT car was designed that way. If someone need to prove it, please provide a picture of a LEGAL GT chassis (real car) that has the LeMan type of rear portion and they are still legal to race against other like Nissan GT-R, Ferrari, Audi or Bentley....

That is my 2 cents...the rest of the rule are pretty solid right now. Tires compound and width can be open as you don't need all the shore and brand of tires to race 1 event...

I know somoene might not agree with me, but I am here to share my opinion and would like to see a better solution on this class soon. Because from what I am seeing, these rule does not looking good for the future.
+1 agree with u 100%
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:08 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
Solara,

This thread has nothing to do with your Midwest Series or Byron’s or Leisure Hours event rules, so don’t let it discourage you on GT racing.

Clete was advised at the start of this thread that the oldest and most respected GT group was you guys up in the Midwest. At one point he agreed with the Midwest Series GT class rules, but they have decided to go down the road of division instead. Its their call, good luck with that.

Hope to meet up with you in Joliet for the Byron Fuels Challenge event next month.
Awesome Jeff...yes, I will have a 3 port RTR made in China Engine along with a $35 pipe set to race you guys. If I can make the A-main like last year, I am considered myself a WINNER already....

However, I know the COBRA will be here as well plus some other serious drivers on GT...also, the TEAM C driver JJ Wang will be here with the Team C new ride..........A-main for me is far far away.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:15 PM   #245
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CLETE for President........
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:16 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
THANK YOU THANK YOU.....
I like the port and plug angle. never thought of that.. there will always be loop holes and unhappy people it's racing... but I like and agree with your direction.
thank for your 2 cents...
I hope others can see that and all share their idea about the ENGINE and BODY rule. Driver can buy the best chassis if they can afford it, so does the tires and the shore...but ENGINE can be hard to determine, and tunning a race engine is not the easiest thing in the earth. Nitro is complicated enough, and the GT class should NOT be one of those complicated class.

Also, when RON set the rules up about all engine must have pull start, that does not mean you have to use the pull start to start the engine, you can still use the starter box to start up the engine. But the pull start must be attached and because the engine is considered a lower end type of engine, it should be cheap enough and should not be pulling monster HP and high RPM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:23 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post
THANK YOU THANK YOU.....
I like the port and plug angle. never thought of that.. there will always be loop holes and unhappy people it's racing... but I like and agree with your direction.
thank for your 2 cents...
Standard vs. Turbo Plug is not a realistic thing to regulate a engine on, neither is port count. Both are extremely easy to work around. Say you limit engines to 3 ports, then the OS Speed XZB is still $500. Say you want to limit to standard plug, well add $50 on top of that $500 for the speed for a custom standard plug head button. Now you have a $550 engine racing with a $75 RTR Kyosho engine. I think price limits are the only realistic way to regulate engines, if that's what you want to do.

I personally run a 9-port onroad engine in my GT, and to be honest there really is no advantage to running it instead of a $200-300 buggy engine. `
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:01 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by BrakeTurnAccelerate View Post
Standard vs. Turbo Plug is not a realistic thing to regulate a engine on, neither is port count. Both are extremely easy to work around. Say you limit engines to 3 ports, then the OS Speed XZB is still $500. Say you want to limit to standard plug, well add $50 on top of that $500 for the speed for a custom standard plug head button. Now you have a $550 engine racing with a $75 RTR Kyosho engine. I think price limits are the only realistic way to regulate engines, if that's what you want to do.

I personally run a 9-port onroad engine in my GT, and to be honest there really is no advantage to running it instead of a $200-300 buggy engine. `
Todd,

Points taken and noted..... thanks
I am not a nitro tuner or a ROAR official...but I think you could simply tech for a plug..and that the high end 3 ports are few... am I right at looking at it this way, I am not sure.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:32 PM   #249
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There are plenty of other three port buggy engines out there that easily will run with the above mentioned O.S., if not run over it. Coming up with a standard head button is not a problem, especially with the Italian engines. The level of performance we are talking about with these engines is way above anything with a pull cord.
What happened to the "it had to have a pull cord" to be run in spec class rule?
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:16 PM   #250
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I hear this Body is the best now.




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Originally Posted by Team Alpha R/C View Post
Hello Guys, i just want to share with you our new body , Alpha R3 is
ready to race!

here is a pictures of the body , in our local race track, in the last race , i got the best
lap time , we are very excited with this new release !!













This body will fit all 330 mm wheelbase car's .

Soon we will show our Alpha R4 race body, Alpha R4 will fit the Kyosho Inferno GT2, Ofna DM One 1/7 and similars car's.

Hope as you enjoy this new body!
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:26 PM   #251
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seen it in action this past weekend. looked like it was stuck to the track
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:45 PM   #252
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Spec classes are what killed electric and nitro onroad, and are what's killing 2WD Short Course off-road. Look at Nitro Truggy, Nitro Buggy and Electric Buggy. There are very few rules and they are still the biggest classes, and are still growing (there's what, 20-30 different brands of buggys now?).

I don't get why every onroad classes has to have 5 different variants. It does nothing but thin classes out and kill any interest.

It's really quite easy to setup the class to be universally accepted...

GT Styled Bodies - NO Wedges, NO Warriors.
Buggy Based (ie; Shaft Driven no belts)
125CC Tanks
.21-.28 Engines
Rubber Tires

If you want to run a 24 port 50,000rpm onroad race engine, then you'll have to pit 3-4 times more then those who run .21 3-ports that get much better mileage. While the $800 onroad specific engines are faster then cheaper offroad alternatives, they aren't fast enough to justify pitting 3 times more often then the offroad engines which get great mileage. It's simply a matter of strategy--something that goes with every form of racing. If I can spend $300-400 on a single engine, and be able to use that at all of the races, it would be much cheaper then having to shell out $150, $200, $250, $400 in order to race each track's different engines rules, and then have to buy clutches and pipes (another $150 on top of EACH) to match each engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MugenDrew View Post
There are plenty of other three port buggy engines out there that easily will run with the above mentioned O.S., if not run over it. Coming up with a standard head button is not a problem, especially with the Italian engines. The level of performance we are talking about with these engines is way above anything with a pull cord.
I was speaking merely on a price level, nothing about performance. To regulate an engine based on number of ports and glow-plug type is NOT going to decrease the cost of racing, if anything it may INCREASE it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:36 PM   #253
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Wow, funny stuff…. clete gets caught in a bold face lie, lol
Losing control there, huh chete?. Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clete Landefeld View Post

No division, respect or disrespect.. we wanted to start racing the GT class here in the northwest..

if the class dies nationaly due to internal class fighting .. fine..... when the class dies, I will go race open 1/8scale.. I already purchased a car.. I have a 1/10 as well..

.... if TimeZone says NO CLASS due to Rules and lack of participation ... FINE..they will look at another class to run... no skin off my ass.... if you dont want to come DON'T...

... Please stay home.. it's not hard to figure out..


Spoken like the real “POS” you are chete, way to help grow and help unify the GT racing class we began in America.



chete, when you see my new GT body design, try not to open another vein!

Hilarious!
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:46 PM   #254
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ok, thanks. thought i seen somewhere last year it said the usgt class was buggy based with single tranny. i ran my L8 latemodel on a road course an it worked great. just didn't have that speed for the hudge long straight as i was tached out around half way or just a hair less. had to keep letting off so i didn't burn the motor up. even if i still had my setup oval mbx5, there is no putting a 2 speed setup in it. hell the regular onroad cars are so dang expensive to buy....otherwise i would of had one already...
On smaller to medium sized tracks, you might be able to get away with just a single speed. Europeans have been racing with only buggy center diffs; you just need to adapt what you have with engine, pipe and clutch bell gearing.

Many of us have been forced to finish GT races with first gear only for years, so it is possible to do.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:57 PM   #255
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i like that response jspeed. doesn't matter what engine i run wether it's my 21xp platinum or my new modded 454 losi engine, i'll still have to let off but maybe not as much when i try a 19/46 gearing i have. way better than the oval gearing i ran which was 16/48. haven't seen how far at top speed i could go with that gearing yet. the 28th i will be useing that gearing with the modded 454 losi engine on a 10th mile gocart track at BMI speedway in ohio..guna be fun..
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