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Old 05-03-2011, 06:41 AM   #1
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Default MUGEN MTX 4R BUMPY TRACK SETUP

Hi,

Can anybody help me !! .. i canīt find the right setup for my local unprepared parking lot track with low to medium traction, tight sections (Hairpin turns) combined with one bumpy wide turn.. but all around bumpy conditions in general. The thing is i need some good setup for my mugen mtx4. I run with rear diff 10K , front spool (One way looked), foam tires (37 to 40 shore depending weather). Thanks for your help cause a i need it bad !! i need your help for a fast setup..

Regards to all !!
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:08 PM   #2
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First try 35f 37rear....or 35 all around...raise your ride height....post more of your setup so we can help u better...
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:11 PM   #3
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.HUG001 you need some heavier oil in that rear diff... ( 50K)
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Old 05-07-2011, 08:46 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bigbank66 View Post
First try 35f 37rear....or 35 all around...raise your ride height....post more of your setup so we can help u better...
my car has front -0,5 toe in, -1 front camber, 1 mm shim Front Up rigth, ligth blue springs, 60 oil front shock, 2mm front droop, medium caster angle, not front suway bar, front spool. 6 mm front ride heigth, rear uper arm with no shims, -2 rear toe in, -2 rear camber, light blue rear spring, 60 oil rear shock, rear diff with 10k, not rear estabilizer bar, rear droop 6mm, 7 mm rear ride heigth.

Tires 37 shore all around. Engine Novarrossi NS12S15, red clutch shoe, superhard clutch spring, 0.8 mm spring preload, bell free play with 0.5 mm, . Gaer ratio : 16-17 /60 and 22/54 , side pulley 24T, my track itīs short with thigt turns both sides, and just one wide turn and in fact itīs the most bumpy track section. Thats it !! with this set-up iīm the second and third best lap time and my final position too... but the thing is: i donīt now nothing about roll center to improve my time, nothing about tire F/R split? always run with the same tire size front and rear, my rear tires always as a result, ends much lower than front ones..

I noticed some push after 15 min main thatīs the big isuue ! and trough the bumpy section my car doesnīt turn pretty well, heīs jumpping to much i canīt take it with full throttle and there is where the first guy itīs doing the his best time, i mean 0,4 Seg less !!

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Old 05-07-2011, 11:55 AM   #5
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Running a front diff will help alot with the push.
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:01 AM   #6
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If you can, run a front diff. If traction is low, 50k front, 10 or 30k rear. The more traction, the stiffer you should go with the diffs. If you don't have a front diff and don't want to build one, you can survive with the spool, but then run 30-50k in the rear.

Tires are likely your number 1 problem. Try 1 step softer fronts (35F/37R or 37F/40R, depending on the wear, maybe harder for the final). It gives more steering and also evens out tire wear front/rear in the final.
With 24t pulley you should ALWAYS run 2-2.5mm tire split (fronts smaller), if you use same size tires, the car MUST be undriveable, there is no question about it. The "sweet spot" of the tires is somewhere around 58mm fronts, 60mm rears, this is what you want to use for fast qualifyers. Try not to run anything bigger than 63mm or you will chunk the tyres very easily. Measure tire wear of all 4 tires during qualifying and calculate how much they will wear during final, this gives you an idea how big tire you need for the final. If one side wears more, you might need to go for different sizes left/right or harder compound on the outside. Usualy the rears wear more, then you need to start up with maybe 3mm tire split instead of 2.5 etc.

Regarding the setup, I think you are also a bit "off the beaten track". Here's one of my old setups that worked pretty well on a parking lot track.
Get some softer springs (Mugen purple, can be even softer for the rear, if bumpy), use lighter oil, connect the swaybars (2.0 or 2.1 rear), and GET SOME DROOP TO THE CAR. With ride height 7mm and droop at 6mm in the rear your car you basically have NO suspension downtravel in the rear, which is no good for the bumpy part. Use the geometry settings in my setup sheet and you won't be far off.

Edit: one more thing... camber is something you should adjust based on the tire wear. In general, fronts should wear even (=inside of the tire has the same diameter than outside of the same tire), rears should wear a bit more on the inside (max 0.5mm). You adjust camber to get this wear pattern and not by the numbers. Different camber values might be needed left and right.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:46 PM   #7
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Thanks to all of you gys i know your help will be great !! see you soon ant will tell how thw things went !

As creed said: one last breath... can you explain to me, why i must be difrent camber size to left than the rigth side??.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:49 AM   #8
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different left to right to compensate for tire wear
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:20 PM   #9
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Default STEERING SYMMETRY

[QUOTE=olev;9078595]If you can, run a front diff. If traction is low, 50k front, 10 or 30k rear. The more traction, the stiffer you should go with the diffs. If you don't have a front diff and don't want to build one, you can survive with the spool, but then run 30-50k in the rear.

Tires are likely your number 1 problem. Try 1 step softer fronts (35F/37R or 37F/40R, depending on the wear, maybe harder for the final). It gives more steering and also evens out tire wear front/rear in the final.
With 24t pulley you should ALWAYS run 2-2.5mm tire split (fronts smaller), if you use same size tires, the car MUST be undriveable, there is no question about it. The "sweet spot" of the tires is somewhere around 58mm fronts, 60mm rears, this is what you want to use for fast qualifyers. Try not to run anything bigger than 63mm or you will chunk the tyres very easily. Measure tire wear of all 4 tires during qualifying and calculate how much they will wear during final, this gives you an idea how big tire you need for the final. If one side wears more, you might need to go for different sizes left/right or harder compound on the outside. Usualy the rears wear more, then you need to start up with maybe 3mm tire split instead of 2.5 etc.


Edit: one more thing... camber is something you should adjust based on the tire wear. In general, fronts should wear even (=inside of the tire has the same diameter than outside of the same tire), rears should wear a bit more on the inside (max 0.5mm). You adjust camber to get this wear pattern and not by the numbers. Different camber values might be needed left and right.
[ Ok i`m doing fine with my setup now, i`m running front diff 10K and 30K rear diff, and turns in better.. but i have other issue now : My car turns in, midle and on power great but just one side, to the orther side the radius it`s so wider, seems to be understeering !, why is that?.. tweak?, steering symmetry, i think i have the same droop both sides front and rear.. what can be affecting me?

Regards

HV

]
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:21 PM   #10
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[QUOTE=HUGO01;10038300]
Quote:
Originally Posted by olev View Post
If you can, run a front diff. If traction is low, 50k front, 10 or 30k rear. The more traction, the stiffer you should go with the diffs. If you don't have a front diff and don't want to build one, you can survive with the spool, but then run 30-50k in the rear.

Tires are likely your number 1 problem. Try 1 step softer fronts (35F/37R or 37F/40R, depending on the wear, maybe harder for the final). It gives more steering and also evens out tire wear front/rear in the final.
With 24t pulley you should ALWAYS run 2-2.5mm tire split (fronts smaller), if you use same size tires, the car MUST be undriveable, there is no question about it. The "sweet spot" of the tires is somewhere around 58mm fronts, 60mm rears, this is what you want to use for fast qualifyers. Try not to run anything bigger than 63mm or you will chunk the tyres very easily. Measure tire wear of all 4 tires during qualifying and calculate how much they will wear during final, this gives you an idea how big tire you need for the final. If one side wears more, you might need to go for different sizes left/right or harder compound on the outside. Usualy the rears wear more, then you need to start up with maybe 3mm tire split instead of 2.5 etc.


Edit: one more thing... camber is something you should adjust based on the tire wear. In general, fronts should wear even (=inside of the tire has the same diameter than outside of the same tire), rears should wear a bit more on the inside (max 0.5mm). You adjust camber to get this wear pattern and not by the numbers. Different camber values might be needed left and right.


Ok i`m doing fine with my setup now, i`m running front diff 10K and 30K rear diff, and turns in better.. but i have other issue now : My car turns in, midle and on power great but just one side, to the orther side the radius it`s so wider, seems to be understeering !, why is that?.. tweak?, steering symmetry, i think i have the same droop both sides front and rear.. what can be affecting me?

Regards

HV

]
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:22 PM   #11
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Ok i`m doing fine with my setup now, i`m running front diff 10K and 30K rear diff, and turns in better.. but i have other issue now : My car turns in, midle and on power great but just one side, to the orther side the radius it`s so wider, seems to be understeering !, why is that?.. tweak?, steering symmetry, i think i have the same droop both sides front and rear.. what can be affecting me?

Regards

HV

][/QUOTE]
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