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Old 03-06-2007, 05:03 PM   #8926
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Originally Posted by Mike Ellis
Dredd, sounds like you have a lot of clearence between the clutch disk and bell. Everyone seems to have their own setting for this. My personal liking is to stack shims until it spins freely and take one out at a time untill it drags. I then add 1 shim back in with a very slight tick of a drag. It will pick up a little more clearence after the disk seats up. If you need a measurable spec, some have said they like .3 mm. It's kinda hard to measure, thats why I set mine as I've explained above. It's nice to have some clearence so you can pick up the throttle a little while pitting without the wheels turning.
Hope this helps, Mike
Well, the bell has .5mm of play. I measured this. WHat happens is the car will rev slightly until say about 5 or 6 mm of trigger movement before it will engage and move. It doesn't move like an RTR would. You know when you press the gas it will move forward inch by inch. My car will move slightly but have a hesitation up until about 6mm of throttle trigger movement. I'm only guessing at the 6mm and it's probably more than that, but it's really not a whole lot...just a bit. If I get past that point and ease into the throttle it will inch forward slowly. Now, if I punch the throttle up to that point it will take off like nobody's business. I'm just saying that when I try to feather it in the turns it's a bit difficult because I cannot find the point where the throttle is pressed enough to engage the clutch slighly to keep my momemtum. Is this just something I have to get the feel for as I learn how to drive better?

I hope I explained it clearly.
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:14 PM   #8927
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Dredd, you are correct in that this is the nature of this type clutch, however you shouldn't have to nail the throttle to get fluid movement. I guess my next question would be how much preload you have on the adjuster nut. Here again everyone has their favorite setting. I measure from the end of the crank to the threads and write that down. Then measure to the nut and subtract . I personally run the gray shoe and the setting is .6mm to.8mm. Most of our tracks here in the northwest have good grip so you can run the clutch pretty tight,in otherwords, not a lot of slippage. like I said, all drivers will have their own setting.Did this help? Mike
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Old 03-06-2007, 05:14 PM   #8928
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#10 Ackermann

Is anybody using it and is there understeer on exit as has been mentioned in the KB? The reason I'm asking, is that the MTX-4 out of the box has a ton of steering. I wouldn't mind having that much steering on my RRRs.

I'm going to be racing the MTX-4 in sedan while I rebuild both of my RRRs. My bearings are all starting to go bad. In Outlaw this past weekend, the MTX-4 was awesome - and I was just running a stock 3-port TZ.

Out on the track, the MTX-4 is a keeper. The car drives really nice with a front diff using 30K front and 10K rear Kyosho diff oil.

The real test for me in comparing the RRR with the MTX-4 will be how well I do in sedan. If I qualify and/or finish higher than I've placed in the past, it will finally prove my theory that the MTX-4 is a better car out of the box.

Now before anyone gets their panties in a knot, know that I won't be getting rid of my Kyoshos any time soon. If I actually do better with the MTX-4 (and I'm highly motivated to do bette), I have to figure out what I've been doing wrong with the Kyoshos.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:00 PM   #8929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Ellis
Dredd, you are correct in that this is the nature of this type clutch, however you shouldn't have to nail the throttle to get fluid movement. I guess my next question would be how much preload you have on the adjuster nut. Here again everyone has their favorite setting. I measure from the end of the crank to the threads and write that down. Then measure to the nut and subtract . I personally run the gray shoe and the setting is .6mm to.8mm. Most of our tracks here in the northwest have good grip so you can run the clutch pretty tight,in otherwords, not a lot of slippage. like I said, all drivers will have their own setting.Did this help? Mike
Well, i don't exactly have to punch the throttle to get fluid movement what I mean to say is if you walk up into the throttle slowly as in pressing it very carefully it will try to move but not catch for a bit. After a certain point it will go. I don't have to nail it for movement, but there is a "lag". Like when I press it initially nothing. I went to the shop and talked to the guys. They tried my car and said "that's about perfect". So I'm wondering if I just don't have the feel. See all my cars had a standard clutch system where it engages right away and you can creep forward with the car. Now this clutch you have to press more throttle (higher rpm) to do this. Is this correct? Obviously the Centax launches faster.

BTW: i'm not sure if someone asked earlier...my wheels do not move when the car is in neutral.
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Old 03-06-2007, 06:54 PM   #8930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredd
Well, i don't exactly have to punch the throttle to get fluid movement what I mean to say is if you walk up into the throttle slowly as in pressing it very carefully it will try to move but not catch for a bit. After a certain point it will go. I don't have to nail it for movement, but there is a "lag". Like when I press it initially nothing. I went to the shop and talked to the guys. They tried my car and said "that's about perfect". So I'm wondering if I just don't have the feel. See all my cars had a standard clutch system where it engages right away and you can creep forward with the car. Now this clutch you have to press more throttle (higher rpm) to do this. Is this correct? Obviously the Centax launches faster.

BTW: i'm not sure if someone asked earlier...my wheels do not move when the car is in neutral.
What I would suggest, is adjusting the clutch nut from 0.8mm through 1.2mm, at 0.1mm increments, checking the throttle between adjustments. If you don't find an adjustment you're happy with, make sure the clutch gap is 0.5mm, you're end play is 0.1mm and start the process again.

You don't want your car to move if it's in neutral. If it does, either your idle is too high or your servo throttle neutral setting is not correct. i.e. If the engine is running and you manually push the throttle rod to close the off the carb, it should not move. It should already be in the closed position.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:01 PM   #8931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
#10 Ackermann

Is anybody using it and is there understeer on exit as has been mentioned in the KB? The reason I'm asking, is that the MTX-4 out of the box has a ton of steering. I wouldn't mind having that much steering on my RRRs.

I'm going to be racing the MTX-4 in sedan while I rebuild both of my RRRs. My bearings are all starting to go bad. In Outlaw this past weekend, the MTX-4 was awesome - and I was just running a stock 3-port TZ.

Out on the track, the MTX-4 is a keeper. The car drives really nice with a front diff using 30K front and 10K rear Kyosho diff oil.

The real test for me in comparing the RRR with the MTX-4 will be how well I do in sedan. If I qualify and/or finish higher than I've placed in the past, it will finally prove my theory that the MTX-4 is a better car out of the box.

Now before anyone gets their panties in a knot, know that I won't be getting rid of my Kyoshos any time soon. If I actually do better with the MTX-4 (and I'm highly motivated to do bette), I have to figure out what I've been doing wrong with the Kyoshos.
Your theory will be conclusive like mine was there both great cars it all comes down to which car you know better & I don't understand how you can have more steering on the Mtx 4 than the rrr I always wind up having to much steering on mine so it all comes down to set up
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:03 PM   #8932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
What I would suggest, is adjusting the clutch nut from 0.8mm through 1.2mm, at 0.1mm increments, checking the throttle between adjustments. If you don't find an adjustment you're happy with, make sure the clutch gap is 0.5mm, you're end play is 0.1mm and start the process again.

You don't want your car to move if it's in neutral. If it does, either your idle is too high or your servo throttle neutral setting is not correct. i.e. If the engine is running and you manually push the throttle rod to close the off the carb, it should not move. It should already be in the closed position.
right that's what I said it doesn't move. I think someone asked me if it moved when I did not touch the throttle. I'm just not sure what's right and what's wrong with this clutch setup. I understand there is not immediate engagement and there is a lag, but just how much is too much? If I could just get an idea of how much throttle is needed generally speaking before the clutch engages and the car moves it will help me determine if it's right.

It's just a pain for me to have to take it apart and try to loosen it when I don't have the right tool. It's extremely hard to turn with plyers.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:21 PM   #8933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMartinez
Your theory will be conclusive like mine was there both great cars it all comes down to which car you know better & I don't understand how you can have more steering on the Mtx 4 than the rrr I always wind up having to much steering on mine so it all comes down to set up
Very true I have turn my steering down too.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:24 PM   #8934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Dickson
Very true I have turn my steering down too.
Sometimes I have to go to the highest roll center in the front as well to reduce steering depending on traction as well
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:28 PM   #8935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredd
right that's what I said it doesn't move. I think someone asked me if it moved when I did not touch the throttle. I'm just not sure what's right and what's wrong with this clutch setup. I understand there is not immediate engagement and there is a lag, but just how much is too much? If I could just get an idea of how much throttle is needed generally speaking before the clutch engages and the car moves it will help me determine if it's right.

It's just a pain for me to have to take it apart and try to loosen it when I don't have the right tool. It's extremely hard to turn with plyers.
Dredd invest on the clutch nut adjustment tool by kyosho
what motor are you using during the last couple of months i been doing different clutch set ups on different motors & every motor had to be set up differently.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:29 PM   #8936
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Originally Posted by GMartinez
Sometimes I have to go to the highest roll center in the front as well to reduce steering depending on traction as well
That's what I notice the most when I got the car a bunch steering compare to my mongoose G4 I had prior difference between night and day.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:32 PM   #8937
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Originally Posted by Ivan Dickson
That's what I notice the most when I got the car a bunch steering compare to my mongoose G4 I had prior difference between night and day.
Mongoose aw man that's what I used to run right before I made the switch to the RRR The 2 speed on the mongoose used to kill me since it was very inconsistent
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:35 PM   #8938
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Originally Posted by GMartinez
Dredd invest on the clutch nut adjustment tool by kyosho
what motor are you using during the last couple of months i been doing different clutch set ups on different motors & every motor had to be set up differently.
I'm using a JP Modified Mugen X12. I mean the car feels good I'm just not sure if it's normal or not. I suppose it'd be best if someone just drove it and said, yeah it's right or no it's a little tight. I don't know how it's supposed to feel heh. You see what I'm trying to say here? I am getting the adjustment tool, it's on order now.
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:52 PM   #8939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredd
I'm using a JP Modified Mugen X12. I mean the car feels good I'm just not sure if it's normal or not. I suppose it'd be best if someone just drove it and said, yeah it's right or no it's a little tight. I don't know how it's supposed to feel heh. You see what I'm trying to say here? I am getting the adjustment tool, it's on order now.
I set my clutch similiar to Mike I like my bell to spin freely & just before the final shimming I take one shim out if it drags to much then add .1 to get the free spin back as for the X12 try this out adjust spring tension to point 4 this will give you a rapid engagement off the line & will not slam into 2nd reducing wear on the shoe similiar to soft shifting but will spool up quicker & endplay of .3 lmk my current set up on one of my motors is .3 endplay & .3 spring tension
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Old 03-06-2007, 07:57 PM   #8940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMartinez
I set my clutch similiar to Mike I like my bell to spin freely & just before the final shimming I take one shim out if it drags to much then add .1 to get the free spin back as for the X12 try this out adjust spring tension to point 4 this will give you a rapid engagement off the line & will not slam into 2nd reducing wear on the shoe similiar to soft shifting but will spool up quicker & endplay of .3 lmk my current set up on one of my motors is .3 endplay & .3 spring tension
point 4...are you referring to the setting on the tool? or you mean decimal 4 as in .4?
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