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Old 08-08-2006, 02:53 PM   #7726
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mrgsr and rcrossco_1, There are a lot of factors involved when you are loose on exit. One thing I would suggest is to run 1-2 mm droop from ride height in the front and 2-3mm droop in the rear. It may be that the balance is off. I would invite you to go to the Kyosho link on my signature and print the setup for Timezone and try it. Try the black swaybar extented all the way out to help the rear to stay stable. The silver one allows a lot of roll which will unload the inside tire. I personally have never needed to go under 40k in the rear diff. We are going to try 30k front and 40k rear this weekend at a track that has been known to be slick. Currently I have 50k in the front. The car dies out mid corner with 50k but very balanced. Try that setup and let us know how it works, we may be able to fine tune it for you.
Hope this helps, Mike
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Old 08-08-2006, 03:14 PM   #7727
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hi thanks for the reply there.

Its not too loose on corner exits, more just real loose on power.

The track is dusty, and grip is not amazing.

The odd thing is that the serpents run thier diffs pretty tight in comparison to my 10K rear and 30K front.

Some run 100K fronts, even though the track is not sticky.

I was thinking of 50K front, and 30K rear. The track is tight and technical but is far too unsettled when power is applied, even halfway round a corner.
Its not that the front is pulling too hard, it seems like the back likes to break away on the application of power, hence my thinking that it was unloading to the inside wheel because the oil was too thin.,,,,

What do you think?
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Old 08-08-2006, 03:45 PM   #7728
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I agree, the lighter lube will let the inside tire break away easier. That's the reason that Dom and I stick to heavier lube. Beside that we both like a lot of steering.
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Old 08-08-2006, 05:33 PM   #7729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE ELLIS
I agree, the lighter lube will let the inside tire break away easier. That's the reason that Dom and I stick to heavier lube. Beside that we both like a lot of steering.
Hi Mike,

On that setup sheet you were using a oneway which has good turn in, positive on power, but tricky as we know, when braking. Don't you think that going with a heavy wt oil in the diff will simulate this action?

Good turn in
Positive on power
but, easy braking?

Would this not help pull you through the corner?

Do you think it comes down to driving style more than any other tuning option?
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:32 PM   #7730
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Great Lakes Challenge Race Report

Tuesday: Kevin Hutchinson and me arrived at Detroit around 12:00 noon. We rented a car and headed towards the track. The first thing I did when I got to the track was walk the line. I noticed the track was more technical then I anticipated. There were several Sís to contend with and some very high speed turns. We went back to the hotel and began preparing ourselves for the first day of practice.

Wednesday: I got to the track around 7:00 am Wednesday morning and I was very excited to put my car on the track for the first time ever. One of the first things I noticed was the amount of traction this track possessed. After several tanks at moderate speed, I started to make some small adjustments. Due to the amount of bite I stiffened the rear sway bar to loosen up my rear end, I needed the car to rotate better. Another important adjustment made was lowering the wing to allow for high speed cornering. By now the car was decent handling wise; speed wise I still had some work to do.

Thursday: What a crazy day!! For one it rained on and off in the morning but we were able to get a solid day of practice. Today the driver stand would start feeling some massive weight due to all drivers on it. It was packed and hectic!! I also broke the car in the high-speed right hand turn after the straight my timing was off and the car pushed into the outer wall breaking my left rear up-right.
Car was good worked on the motor today I had to lower my head clearance to get the correct amount of power I was looking for. I also notice that I had a fuel mileage issue that might affect me in the qualifiers.

Friday: First day of qualifying and my nightmares begin. As we all know this sport is not a simple one many things can go wrong and they did. First run of the day I ran out of gas with significant amount of time left. I was frustrated because the pace was good and now I had mileage issues. On my second run we tried to find a better tune to be able to make time. The only problem was I got into an accident on the 3rd or 4th lap. First day of qualifying is over and I didnít get a solid one in and still not able to finish a race.

Saturday: Was a pressure packed day with ups and downs. 3rd qualifier overall was going fine until my ball link that attaches to the carb came apart thatís a first for me. 4th overall came another problem stripped 2nd gear must have picked up some debris only thing I can think of. So now Iím going into the 5th qualifier sitting thirty something place and I need too get a good one in and remember Iím still not sure about the run time. I did make some adjustments before the qualifier to hopefully make fuel. I went to 25% Tornado hoping it would give me that needed time. All the hard work and effort paid off in my 5th qualifier. I was on a nice solid pace to put me in the A-main, but I encountered some traffic and did not want to rush any passes so the my time suffered. I ended up 14th after 5 rounds, which puts me 2nd in the B-Main.

Sunday: The Mains start. My strategy was to hang loose behind Nick Smart for the first few laps to see what would happen. My start was great I was able to make a move immediately. After a few laps, I significantly increased my lead, and by the 10-15 minute mark my lead has stretched to 2 laps. This is a good thing because I cut my tires for a 20 minute main not realizing that the main would be 30 minutesÖ. My faultÖfortunately I was able to cruise the rest of the way to victory.

All the problems, all the hard work was worth it cause now Iím in the show.
A-main started I had a little problem at the start caused me to start late. I had a couple little tumbles, ran out fuel once, overall was a good run wish it could have been cleaner but that's the way it is, finished 6th and had alot of fun. I also learned tons of new things that I can apply and help others with.

I want to thank those of you that helped me in any way and you know who you are.
A special thanks goes out to God, my wife Liliana, Kevin Hutchinson and Douglass Day thanks for all the help and support.

Guys I will list my setup tomorrow.

Robert Maestrey
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:37 PM   #7731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert maestrey
Great Lakes Challenge Race Report

Tuesday: Kevin Hutchinson and me arrived at Detroit around 12:00 noon. We rented a car and headed towards the track. The first thing I did when I got to the track was walk the line. I noticed the track was more technical then I anticipated. There were several Sís to contend with and some very high speed turns. We went back to the hotel and began preparing ourselves for the first day of practice.

Wednesday: I got to the track around 7:00 am Wednesday morning and I was very excited to put my car on the track for the first time ever. One of the first things I noticed was the amount of traction this track possessed. After several tanks at moderate speed, I started to make some small adjustments. Due to the amount of bite I stiffened the rear sway bar to loosen up my rear end, I needed the car to rotate better. Another important adjustment made was lowering the wing to allow for high speed cornering. By now the car was decent handling wise; speed wise I still had some work to do.

Thursday: What a crazy day!! For one it rained on and off in the morning but we were able to get a solid day of practice. Today the driver stand would start feeling some massive weight due to all drivers on it. It was packed and hectic!! I also broke the car in the high-speed right hand turn after the straight my timing was off and the car pushed into the outer wall breaking my left rear up-right.
Car was good worked on the motor today I had to lower my head clearance to get the correct amount of power I was looking for. I also notice that I had a fuel mileage issue that might affect me in the qualifiers.

Friday: First day of qualifying and my nightmares begin. As we all know this sport is not a simple one many things can go wrong and they did. First run of the day I ran out of gas with significant amount of time left. I was frustrated because the pace was good and now I had mileage issues. On my second run we tried to find a better tune to be able to make time. The only problem was I got into an accident on the 3rd or 4th lap. First day of qualifying is over and I didnít get a solid one in and still not able to finish a race.

Saturday: Was a pressure packed day with ups and downs. 3rd qualifier overall was going fine until my ball link that attaches to the carb came apart thatís a first for me. 4th overall came another problem stripped 2nd gear must have picked up some debris only thing I can think of. So now Iím going into the 5th qualifier sitting thirty something place and I need too get a good one in and remember Iím still not sure about the run time. I did make some adjustments before the qualifier to hopefully make fuel. I went to 25% Tornado hoping it would give me that needed time. All the hard work and effort paid off in my 5th qualifier. I was on a nice solid pace to put me in the A-main, but I encountered some traffic and did not want to rush any passes so the my time suffered. I ended up 14th after 5 rounds, which puts me 2nd in the B-Main.

Sunday: The Mains start. My strategy was to hang loose behind Nick Smart for the first few laps to see what would happen. My start was great I was able to make a move immediately. After a few laps, I significantly increased my lead, and by the 10-15 minute mark my lead has stretched to 2 laps. This is a good thing because I cut my tires for a 20 minute main not realizing that the main would be 30 minutesÖ. My faultÖfortunately I was able to cruise the rest of the way to victory.

All the problems, all the hard work was worth it cause now Iím in the show.
A-main started I had a little problem at the start caused me to start late. I had a couple little tumbles, ran out fuel once, overall was a good run wish it could have been cleaner but that's the way it is, finished 6th and had alot of fun. I also learned tons of new things that I can apply and help others with.

I want to thank those of you that helped me in any way and you know who you are.
A special thanks goes out to God, my wife Liliana, Kevin Hutchinson and Douglass Day thanks for all the help and support.

Guys I will list my setup tomorrow.

Robert Maestrey
good job robert the big show
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Old 08-09-2006, 11:48 AM   #7732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V1-RRR-WC
Good turn in
Positive on power
but, easy braking?

Would this not help pull you through the corner?
Do you think it comes down to driving style more than any other tuning option?
I think driving style has a lot to do with it. Seems a lot of drivers come back with to much throttle to soon. I just started to use the front diff due to the tracks designs lately. I miss the good turn in the one way provides but enjoy being able to run in deeper and brake without spinning out. What I'm trying to figure out is mid corner. Seems like with the diff in front' the car kinda dies out and you either back off or bump the throttle a couple of times to stay on line. I'm working on it
Mike
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:43 PM   #7733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE ELLIS
I think driving style has a lot to do with it. Seems a lot of drivers come back with to much throttle to soon. I just started to use the front diff due to the tracks designs lately. I miss the good turn in the one way provides but enjoy being able to run in deeper and brake without spinning out. What I'm trying to figure out is mid corner. Seems like with the diff in front' the car kinda dies out and you either back off or bump the throttle a couple of times to stay on line. I'm working on it
Mike
Why don't you just run the solid? I've always been a one way guy whether it'd be small or big track. But at the GLC I had great success with the solid. Being an electric guy, it took me some time getting used to running brakes. With the one way you had to be careful with the brakes. But with the solid....wow! I could go in harder and brake later and not worry about the rear end breaking loose. I think I'm gonna stay with the solid for quite some time. The only problem I had with it was it gave a slight push off throttle. That was fine since we had plenty of traction.
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:47 PM   #7734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Why don't you just run the solid? I've always been a one way guy whether it'd be small or big track. But at the GLC I had great success with the solid. Being an electric guy, it took me some time getting used to running brakes. With the one way you had to be careful with the brakes. But with the solid....wow! I could go in harder and brake later and not worry about the rear end breaking loose. I think I'm gonna stay with the solid for quite some time. The only problem I had with it was it gave a slight push off throttle. That was fine since we had plenty of traction.

personally I like the one way...tried the solid in practice at the Glc....but I was much faster with the one-way....im gonna try to run the solid some more to get used to it....but right now for me I feel the one way is faster.
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:59 PM   #7735
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The grip levels generally experienced at the tracks here in europe prevent us from running one-ways. They work ok, but there is a very small window in which they work well. Also most tracks here are large and normally have a couple of places where you have to break hard.
A solid works well here, but my driving style requires heaps of steering at turn-in, so I always run a diff setup. For the normal grip levels, a front 10k and rear 7k works really well and you end up with a very lively car which turns in extremely well - also powering out of the corners is excellent.
On a high grip circuit here, you can only really run a max of 30k rear diff oil, otherwise the rear end becomes too unstable powering out of corners.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:02 PM   #7736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert maestrey
Great Lakes Challenge Race Report

Nice report, Robert!

I'm off to the European Championship on Sunday - a full week of testing and racing at the superb Heemstede track in Holland.

Really looking forward to it!!

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:04 PM   #7737
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I agree with Robert, I like the 1-way a lot. I've tried spool and diff. Car just die too much mid-corner. I will agree and I've recommended (lately) for the newer guys, diff is easier for them to drive, they have more control of the car. A 1-way, car just roll so much better mid corner. BTW Robert, good run at the GLC!!!

For my personal driving, I brake real hard and late even with a 1-way, so I can't say there is massive advantage for me there if I use a diff/spool. But I can tell you by experience... I ran front diff Q1 & 2 at the last 2 day and then switched to a 1-way, car looked completely out of control because my brakes were way too much and I didn't practice with the 1-way... even my pit guy was saying that car looked like a handful to drive.... and I'll agree. However I was 4 secs faster then my TQ with a diff, even with the car looked like a handful. Once I got my driving settled back to a 1-way, I was overall 8 sec quicker than my diff car in Round 4. For me personally and by no means I'm saying this should be for everyone... if traction allows, my driving with a 1-way is faster then a diff/spool. I'm accustom to carpet foam during the winter, it's all about the corner speed to me.

Dom
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:08 PM   #7738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markp27
I'm off to the European Championship on Sunday ...

Cheers, Mark.
Good luck!!!

Dom
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:22 PM   #7739
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Thanks Dom

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:33 PM   #7740
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Here's the setup I ran at the GLC

F:

Shock oil: 60 wt (losi)
Diaphragm: Stock
Shock piston: 1.1, 2 hole
Spring: front dk blue (used the new shocks from the evo)
Shock position: 3
castor angle: 12.5 deg
camber angle: 2
toe angle: 1 deg out
front width: 198.5
down stop (droop): 0mm from ride height
Roll bar: 45 deg
Tire: Kawahara 42; 58mm
Ride height: 5mm
Knuckle arm: 2 deg
servo saver: 11
Upper arm position: 2nd highest position
Solid axle


Rear:

Shock oil: 70wt
Diaphragm: stock
Shock pistion: 1.1, 2 hole
Shock spring: Dk Blue (new shocks from evo)
shock position: 3
upper arm height: removed the 2mm shim from the rear hub
camber angle: 3 deg
toe angle: 1.5 deg
rear width: 200mm
down stop (droop): 3mm from ride height
antiroll bar: 2.0
Tire: kawahara 45; 59mm
wheel offset: 0
ride height: 5.5 mm
lower arm position: highest hole

Gearing: 17/23 61/55
Clutch shoe: grey
spring: hard

My car had a slight push going into the turns. If I had to make a change to tweak this I would have gone with 40F and 42R, go to shock position 4 in the rear and/or place the 2mm shim on the rear hub. After looking at my tire wear after 30 min, I lost less than a mil F/R. I think that my rear end was just too planted.
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