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Old 04-21-2006, 04:59 PM   #6091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNSlow2
Lowering the inside or raising the outside of the upper link raises the roll center. One of the reasons gas cars have the outer end of the upper link so high is because of the very high center of gravity due to the rather heavy engine, a low roll center would simply cause the car to roll over. I am comparing the upper link angle to 1/10 scale electric when I mention this. One of the biggest things the upper link does is change the amount of camber gain in roll. Shorter will change the amount of gain as well.

If you really want to change roll center move the lower arm up or down, like we can do on the RRR. That way camber gain is not changed unless you want both changes.
Maybe reading this will change your mind.

http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=9986

It was wrote by Glenn Cauley and I know he knows his stuff.
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:02 PM   #6092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash-Money
hey guys i just bought this car for $75 bucks??? all i know is its a kyosho? and ?what model is it? and can i still get parts for it? what kind of engine is it?






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Old 04-21-2006, 05:09 PM   #6093
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All this talk of camber, roll, roll center and traction is giving me motion sickness . Maybe I'm oversimplying things, but we really need a chart similar to the one below (better row and column headings are encouraged), specifically for the RRR. Results of change should include effects on roll center (raise/lower), steering (on-power, off-power, entry/exit, etc.), responsiveness (more, less) and traction (more, less, neutral), etc. In addition, it would be nice to see something with respect to type of axle (front/rear) and tire shore. I'll post it in the V1RRR Knowledge Base and we're all set!

I realize that there are a lot of other factors that go into setting up the car, but at least this way, everyone has a starting point from which to work from and we are all on the same sheet of music when we're talking about it.

Code:
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|                  |High Traction Surface|Med Traction Surface|Low Traction Surface|
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|Want less traction| Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|Want more traction| Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|Want less steering| Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|Want more steering| Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|Correct understeer| Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|Correct oversteer | Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|More responsive   | Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
|Less responsive   | Do this...          | Do this...         | Do this...         |
|                  | Results of change   | Results of change  | Results of change  |
+------------------+---------------------+--------------------+--------------------+
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:21 PM   #6094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmaris Europe
Maybe reading this will change your mind.

http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=9986

It was wrote by Glenn Cauley and I know he knows his stuff.

Doesn't change my mind at all. What it says is that if you raise the lower arm (on the inside) you raise the roll center..very true. If you take a minute to draw a line with the upper arm lower on the inside, mark the spot on the lower arm line where they cross ("Instant center"), then draw the line from the contact patch to the Instant Center the roll center is slightly raised where it crosses the C/L.

Plus I agree Glenn Cauley knows his stuff.
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:23 PM   #6095
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Palarmis Europe is on the money with the way he described roll center and how the upper link changes it.

Do keep in mind that both the angle of the upper and lower arms dictate where the roll center lies in relation to the the cg of the car.

If you are looking for more initial on throttle grip, you want to lower the roll center at that part of the car. Do this in rear, you need to create more of an angle of the link.

If you are looking for more camber change during a hard turn, you want a shorter link/arm, ie moving the link towards the center.
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:31 PM   #6096
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Nevermind . I hate fictional suspenion lines stuff. Unfortunately defining roll center is car specific. Glen Cauley does explain it right though .

My advise is play with it after you found basic settings to your liking. Until then try to keep it at stock settings.
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:47 PM   #6097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash-Money
hey guys i just bought this car for $75 bucks??? all i know is its a kyosho? and ?what model is it? and can i still get parts for it? what kind of engine is it?






Looks like v1 r...not sure.....motor is a nova mega..they are discontinued from serpent...you should be able to find parts for the car..www.rcmart.com motor you might be able to find piston and sleeve sets from nova rossi that will work with the motor since it is a nova rossi based engine
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:53 PM   #6098
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In this article, what is confusing to reader trying to understand is that in this picture, rollcenter is being changed via upper link AND lower suspension arm at the same time.



To understand roll center changes easier should think about what the upper link angle will do while the lower suspension angle stays constant, and vice versa, what the lower suspension arm angle will do while the upplink angle stays constant.

To change both at the same time could be confusing for someone trying to understand it.

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Old 04-21-2006, 05:55 PM   #6099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosfan
i am curious to see if this would work, because this information contradicts everything that i have read on rollcenter setups
can you provide this info other than word of mouth?
Below is a quote from Michael Salven in MyTSN.

Quote:

MICHAEL SALVEN (NL) 4.4.2003 at 09:12
Philip
I couldnt tell it any better. Correct explanation and also a good analysis. I also noticed that the change of the rear rollcenter seemes to work in the opposite way as it should theoretically, that is you gain rear traction (at least off-throttle) when you raise it.
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:56 PM   #6100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkangel
Palarmis Europe is on the money with the way he described roll center and how the upper link changes it.

Do keep in mind that both the angle of the upper and lower arms dictate where the roll center lies in relation to the the cg of the car. Yep

If you are looking for more initial on throttle grip, you want to lower the roll center at that part of the car. Do this in rear, you need to create more of an angle of the link. Yes if you move the lower up on the inside

If you are looking for more camber change during a hard turn, you want a shorter link/arm, ie moving the link towards the center.
What? That makes it longer!


Ok, just so you all know I am not looking for a fight here, it's Friday night, I'm home watching hockey and reading the "net". Plus I am Old and Slow so I tend to study these things, plus it is what I do for a living.

I will say this one last time. If you lower the upper arm on the inside you will raise the roll center, and increase camber gain. A shorter upper link will cause a more rapid change in camber gain. Please go back and look at the Cauley picture and imagine the upper link on a steep angle down then connect all the lines to this new instant center. The roll center will be higher. I just did it again myself to make sure.

Ain't this fun?
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Old 04-21-2006, 06:41 PM   #6101
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tommi and the old guy are correct. If you move the upper camber link to the inside hole, you raise the roll center.

The upper camber angle points down, lower suspension arm angle points up. Now look at the RRR part and move the upper camber link to the inside hole. You see how it lowers the upper camber link angle from what it was? When you reintersect the points, the intersection at the center line is higher, therefore the roll center is higher. Try it.
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Old 04-21-2006, 06:43 PM   #6102
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hey there
can anyone explain how to sit my blocks and set up the droop and up stop and down stop setting on my rrr thanks in advance
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:13 PM   #6103
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I have received and installed the new shock towers and the aluminium blocks. If the weather permits, will try it out tomorrow with different hole positions!
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Old 04-21-2006, 10:04 PM   #6104
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If you guys are having trouble with set up. Check out the XXXMain chassis setup guide. It is the most comprehensive guide available. It can be purchased at www.xxxmain.com.

Dave
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Old 04-21-2006, 11:25 PM   #6105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjones
hey there
can anyone explain how to sit my blocks and set up the droop and up stop and down stop setting on my rrr thanks in advance
Go here: http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/pro...81&kategoria=0 Download the Hudy Set-up book. When you open it up, it will have the PDF version of the instruction manual that comes with the Hudy system. If you have more questions, let us know.

Last edited by rmdhawaii; 04-21-2006 at 11:38 PM.
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