R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-18-2006, 07:11 AM   #6001
B4
Tech Addict
 
B4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 642
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommi
Ok...first thing you should know is that there are 2 types of ride height involved in setting up your car. The setup-ride-height, and the real ride height. The "setup ride height" is the measured ride height when the car is on the Hudy setup system, while the real ride height is the actual ride height of your car with mounted tires. Tire diameter affects the ride height, which in turn affects the camber. Hence, the camber reading you get on the Hudy WILL NOT be the same when you bolt on the tires you want to run your car with.

Not many may know this, the Hudy setup system has a 66mm simulated tire diameter, but most of the time we will not be using 66mm tires. Quite a complicated calculation is involved IF you want to get the real camber corresponding to the tire diameter thru the setup camber. This might be a lil bit tough for you(judging by your post number, you're new in this hobby?); but I think this is useful for the benefits of others as well.

Let's say we want to have a real ride height of 6mm on 60mm tires:
Calculated setup-ride-height:
66(the simulated tire diameter on Hudy) - 60(the tires we want to use) = 6mm

The 6mm difference we get is inclusive of the difference above and below the axle, so we need only half of it. 6mm/2 = 3mm

Hence the setup-ride-height = 6 + 3 = 9mm; this simply means, setting up a ride height of 9mm on the Hudy will give you a ride height of 6mm when you're on your 60mm tires.

Like I posted before, the camber setting is a running change for me, I change it using a camber gauge after every 2 tanks or so due to the ever changing tire diameter. Setting the camber on the Hudy setup system is merely a way of getting a reference point in the setup procedure for me. If the above ways are too tedious to use, a camber gauge will make things much more easier.
Tommi,
Great explanation on the finer points of alignment, however I think I have to disagree with your explanation about camber. When you set the camber it will remain constant during the entire wear of the tires, what actually changes during the wear of the tires is ride height and droop. During the course of a run when the droop changes it will affect the weight transfer which will also change the wear pattern of the tires.
For a long main and I'll just talk about the rear here. If you know you are going to get 4mm of wear and you start with 62mm diameter. I would do all my settings based on 60mm diameter and this will give a good balance for the whole race.
B4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 07:16 AM   #6002
Tech Regular
 
bighurt98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 496
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default Ride Height Chart for Hudy Board?

Front/Rear 4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 Final RH(mm)

60.0 mm 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0 9.5 10.0

60.5 6.75 7.25 7.75 8.25 8.75 9.25 9.75

61.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0 9.5

61.5 6.25 6.75 7.25 7.75 8.25 8.75 9.25

62.0 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0

62.5 5.75 6.25 6.75 7.25 7.75 8.25 8.75

63.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5
__________________
Capricorn C03/Matrix Tires/Novarossi
Capricorn RC USA/RC Target
Murnan Modified Motors
Desoto Racing
Team Gravity
bighurt98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 07:16 AM   #6003
Tech Elite
 
rmdhawaii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,804
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

tommi: Your write up is really cool. I need to read it a few more times, i think. But dude! I am seriously confused.

I measured the distance between the center of the wheel shaft hole on the hudy setup stands and the bottom and it's 30mm. I measured the tire diameter and it's 64-65mm, front and rear, with New Arrows tires. When I measure ride height, I only measure it with the wheels on. I never measure ride height when it's on the hudy setup stands. And I only measure from the bottom of the front/rear chassis to the ground.

You write:

Quote:
Tire diameter affects the ride height, which in turn affects the camber. Hence, the camber reading you get on the Hudy WILL NOT be the same when you bolt on the tires you want to run your car with.
But the first thing you do is set the downstop, ride height and droop with the wheels on. So no matter if your car is suspended 30mm off the ground, 33mm off the ground or 50mm off the ground, those adjustments remain static once you start fussing with camber. No matter what the suspended height is, 2.5 degrees is 2.5 degrees. When you put the wheels back on the car, allowing some give on the tire because of gravity, it's still 2.5 degrees.

I understand that when you run the car, your tires start to wear and your ride height changes. If you adjust your ride height, you will change the camber as you say. But if you don't adjust your ride height (yes, I know, you will start to scrape the chassis on the ground), then your camber remains static.

What am I missing??

Last edited by rmdhawaii; 04-18-2006 at 07:27 AM.
rmdhawaii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 07:42 AM   #6004
Tech Elite
 
tommi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: MATRIX
Posts: 2,898
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by B4
Tommi,
Great explanation on the finer points of alignment, however I think I have to disagree with your explanation about camber. When you set the camber it will remain constant during the entire wear of the tires, what actually changes during the wear of the tires is ride height and droop. During the course of a run when the droop changes it will affect the weight transfer which will also change the wear pattern of the tires.
For a long main and I'll just talk about the rear here. If you know you are going to get 4mm of wear and you start with 62mm diameter. I would do all my settings based on 60mm diameter and this will give a good balance for the whole race.
Hey B4!! Thanks for this, I myself have to disagree to my post after reading it again......I should have put it more clearer.

Ok, what I was trying to say is...the changing tire diameter DOES affect the ride height. So in order to get back the same settings, the tire diameter change that leads to change in ride height needs to be compensated by adjusting the ride height, and droop as well. On the camber, when the shocks are extended and the droop changed, the GEOMETRY of the suspension arm changes as well; that is where the camber change takes place. I am talking about making changes to the car's setup accordingly to the changing tire diameter.

B4 is right that the camber does not change during the entire wear of the tire. It's the changing of ride height and droop that took place. Hence, it is the need of adjustment on the ride height and droop resulted from the wear of tire, that force the need to change the camber.
tommi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 07:54 AM   #6005
Tech Elite
 
tommi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: MATRIX
Posts: 2,898
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
tommi: Your write up is really cool. I need to read it a few more times, i think. But dude! I am seriously confused.

I measured the distance between the center of the wheel shaft hole on the hudy setup stands and the bottom and it's 30mm. I measured the tire diameter and it's 64-65mm, front and rear, with New Arrows tires. When I measure ride height, I only measure it with the wheels on. I never measure ride height when it's on the hudy setup stands. And I only measure from the bottom of the front/rear chassis to the ground.

You write:


But the first thing you do is set the downstop, ride height and droop with the wheels on. So no matter if your car is suspended 30mm off the ground, 33mm off the ground or 50mm off the ground, those adjustments remain static once you start fussing with camber. No matter what the suspended height is, 2.5 degrees is 2.5 degrees. When you put the wheels back on the car, allowing some give on the tire because of gravity, it's still 2.5 degrees.

I understand that when you run the car, your tires start to wear and your ride height changes. If you adjust your ride height, you will change the camber as you say. But if you don't adjust your ride height (yes, I know, you will start to scrape the chassis on the ground), then your camber remains static.

What am I missing??
Hey dude, sorry for the confusion... Me bad... Explainations made in the previous post, I did mean "running camber change, resulted from running ride height change due to the tire wear". I do downstop/droop via the lifting method after having done with the ride height on tires. Ride height first, then downstop, followed by camber and toe.
tommi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 08:05 AM   #6006
Tech Elite
 
maskedrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MP9 is here ...stay tune !
Posts: 2,039
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

May i ask what kind/brand of Lub Oil you guys use to maintain the clutch bearing??
__________________
Kyosho- Sirio/ OS engine- AVID bearing- Blue thunder fuel- Proline- RC dynamite- Sanwa- RC Art
maskedrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 08:07 AM   #6007
Tech Elite
 
maskedrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MP9 is here ...stay tune !
Posts: 2,039
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommi
Hey dude, sorry for the confusion... Me bad... Explainations made in the previous post, I did mean "running camber change, resulted from running ride height change due to the tire wear". I do downstop/droop via the lifting method after having done with the ride height on tires. Ride height first, then downstop, followed by camber and toe.
Yo Tommi, like i said before...reading ur posting indeed beri 'chim' leh....always must ''use my brain. use my brain'' beri hard...hehehe
__________________
Kyosho- Sirio/ OS engine- AVID bearing- Blue thunder fuel- Proline- RC dynamite- Sanwa- RC Art
maskedrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 08:17 AM   #6008
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pole Position
Posts: 3,173
Trader Rating: 13 (93%+)
Default clutch bearing lube..

i find mugen supergrease works best
__________________
Serpent 748 TQ | GIMAR Engines
Walter RC HObby | www.walterrchobby.com.au
BlueRC | www.bluerc.net
mrgsr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 09:08 AM   #6009
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: netherlands
Posts: 19
Send a message via MSN to nismo46
Default

ok thanks for your reactions

i adjusted first the ride hight and the droop and then the camber, can anyone explain me why my tires wear in the wrong direction?
nismo46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 09:42 AM   #6010
Tech Elite
 
tommi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: MATRIX
Posts: 2,898
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo46
ok thanks for your reactions

i adjusted first the ride hight and the droop and then the camber, can anyone explain me why my tires wear in the wrong direction?
You need MORE negative camber if your tires are wearing outside, it is ok if the tires are wearing slightly on the inside. All the inputs above, are to tell you that the camber set on the Hudy may not be reflective of your desired camber IF you have your ride height set the last; that's what ppl tend to do...that is to get the car setup ENTIRELY using the Hudy blocks, and then re-adjust the ride height aftre that using the tires - which should not be the case.

Another thing to consider is your track layout, if your track has more right handers, set your car with more negative camber on the left wheels as compared to the right wheels, and vice versa; this will give you equal tire wear. I normally had mine set 0.5-1 degree difference between the left and right wheels.
tommi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 09:54 AM   #6011
jag
Tech Master
 
jag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 1,168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedrider
May i ask what kind/brand of Lub Oil you guys use to maintain the clutch bearing??
I use Mugen (spit) Super Grease on my thrust bearing.
jag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 11:07 AM   #6012
Tech Elite
 
maskedrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MP9 is here ...stay tune !
Posts: 2,039
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

hmm....seems like Mugen grease is quite widely use here....any parts number, Jag ?
__________________
Kyosho- Sirio/ OS engine- AVID bearing- Blue thunder fuel- Proline- RC dynamite- Sanwa- RC Art
maskedrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 11:13 AM   #6013
jag
Tech Master
 
jag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: So. Florida
Posts: 1,168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedrider
hmm....seems like Mugen grease is quite widely use here....any parts number, Jag ?
I don't know if it has a part number. It comes in a small tube and is called "Super Grease". You should be able to find it by using the name.
jag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 11:42 AM   #6014
Tech Elite
 
rmdhawaii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,804
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommi
Hey dude, sorry for the confusion... Me bad... Explainations made in the previous post, I did mean "running camber change, resulted from running ride height change due to the tire wear". I do downstop/droop via the lifting method after having done with the ride height on tires. Ride height first, then downstop, followed by camber and toe.
No problem.
rmdhawaii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2006, 11:45 AM   #6015
Tech Elite
 
maskedrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MP9 is here ...stay tune !
Posts: 2,039
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jag
I don't know if it has a part number. It comes in a small tube and is called "Super Grease". You should be able to find it by using the name.
cool.... thanks
__________________
Kyosho- Sirio/ OS engine- AVID bearing- Blue thunder fuel- Proline- RC dynamite- Sanwa- RC Art
maskedrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FOR SALE - Mugen MBX5T ProSpec and Kyosho STR with chassis conversion and Kyosho big MattWells R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 5 04-28-2017 10:25 AM
1986 1/12 Kyosho Plazma MKIII With Kyosho LeMan 600E Motor Funkymojo R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 05-17-2012 11:11 AM
Custom painted Kyosho SP2 and Kyosho STRR bodies.... RC3 Graphics SWEET W/ PICS CRFXXXT R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 01-07-2008 07:38 PM
MACH. 28/NEW PS, KYOSHO MINI INFERNO ST/W/3NEW IB1400 8 CELL PACKS, KYOSHO 1./8 BUGGY newbie2 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 5 11-18-2007 06:07 PM
Convert Kyosho Quick Start system on Kyosho QRC to Pullstart Morpheus2be Monster Trucks 0 02-16-2005 11:26 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:21 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net