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Old 03-15-2006, 07:44 AM   #5356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
Hi

I am hearing a lot of the top drivers are using a front diff with very heavy oil. 300,000-500,000 weight with 50,000 in the back. This is to be able to get the power down really early in the corners and power round and out. Anybody try this?

Cheers
Ziggy, have you asked Ben about this? I think he told me he ran 300k in his diff.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:56 AM   #5357
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Thanks for all the info guys!!
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:05 AM   #5358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markp27
Ziggy, have you asked Ben about this? I think he told me he ran 300k in his diff.

Cheers, Mark.
Yeah

Ben says Christoph runs 500K but for high bite tracks. I was thinking 300K would be better for around our local with 500K for Mendip as its high traction. This works better than the one way, solid or locked axles

I dont know if anybody else has tried it and what results they got
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:50 AM   #5359
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As soon as this blinking snow has gone from here, I'll start to do some testing - but then the grip levels will be low, so it is unlikely that such a setup will work here.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:03 PM   #5360
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Default Slipping clutch problem...

I think I figured out my slipping clutch problem, but I won't know for sure until race day. I went through the 710 FAQ (Many thanks to Mark P and Glenn C!) and found a tidbit that clued me into what might be wrong:
Quote:
You should always be able to spin the clutch bell when the motor is held vertically with the clutch facing up or in the down position. If the clutch doesn’t spin for at least 5 seconds recheck your adjustments. Do this without any lubrication on the thrust bearing.
When the clutch was face down, the clutch bell spun just fine, but when it was face up, it didn't spin for more than a second. I added quite a number of thin shims until the clutch bell spun for at least 5 seconds. I also verified that the clutch gap was still okay, which is currently set at 0.5mm (The A-B measurement). Spring nut is currently at 0.6mm.

The manual doesn’t address endplay at all, which is a serious deficiency if you ask me. It is altogether possible, that I should add more shims to decrease the endplay, but on a previous occasion, I added so many shims that the clutch bell didn't move at all. I'm starting to finally get a better understanding of what end play is and what I am suppose to measure, as no one has really provided any drawing of this. I think I'm close. I really don't know if too much endplay has any thing to do with a slipping clutch, but the current endplay setting must certainly be better than what I was running previously. We'll see. Any other advice regarding endplay would be appreciated.

The only other remaining clutch question I have, is on how much grease should be applied to the thrust bearing? With just a very small amount, it increased my clutch bell spin time to almost 10 seconds!

Thanks!
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:14 PM   #5361
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I just put a slight dab & spread it thru.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:51 PM   #5362
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Cool that you're getting your clutch issues sorted out. I don't know why the end-play isn't addressed in the Kyosho instructions, as reducing the end-play has a significant effect on the life-time of your thrust bearing.

Its quite easy to set the end-play once you've done it a couple of times. Keep adding spacers until you get no fore-aft movement when you push-pull the clutch bell, then remove one spacer and check to see if you can just say move the clutch bell by pushing-pulling it. There should just be a little bit of movement, approx 0.1mm.

You don't need so much grease on the thrust bearing, any excess will be thrown off by the rotational forces once your car is running. Actually when I have freshly lubed and greased the clutch bearings, my clutch bell will only spin for about 3-4 seconds - all depends upon which grease you use. One of the best is Mugen Super grease, as it really sticks and doesn't fly off so easily.

The important thing is to grease the bearing after each days run and clean and lube the two metal shielded bearings with degreaser and then WD40. You bearings should last a heck of a long time as long as you do your maintenence.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:08 PM   #5363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markp27
Cool that you're getting your clutch issues sorted out. I don't know why the end-play isn't addressed in the Kyosho instructions, as reducing the end-play has a significant effect on the life-time of your thrust bearing.

Its quite easy to set the end-play once you've done it a couple of times. Keep adding spacers until you get no fore-aft movement when you push-pull the clutch bell, then remove one spacer and check to see if you can just say move the clutch bell by pushing-pulling it. There should just be a little bit of movement, approx 0.1mm.

You don't need so much grease on the thrust bearing, any excess will be thrown off by the rotational forces once your car is running. Actually when I have freshly lubed and greased the clutch bearings, my clutch bell will only spin for about 3-4 seconds - all depends upon which grease you use. One of the best is Mugen Super grease, as it really sticks and doesn't fly off so easily.

The important thing is to grease the bearing after each days run and clean and lube the two metal shielded bearings with degreaser and then WD40. You bearings should last a heck of a long time as long as you do your maintenence.

Cheers, Mark.
Totally agree with mark...Very little end play is what I look for......I thinkif you have to much its like changing your gap dont know if this makes any sense.......
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:30 PM   #5364
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710baby, Mark and Robert - Thanks!

Part of my problem with adjusting endplay had to do with focusing on the movement of the clutch bell instead of the distance from the clutch. If you have no endplay shims, the clutch bell floats and your clutch gap has a tendency of varying between 0.0mm to 0.5mm - which is why Robert is absolutely correct. Once you shim the endplay properly, then that float goes away to the 0.1mm which Mark is talking about.

Hmmmm... I think I'll go back and double check my endplay again.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:42 PM   #5365
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The end-play doesn't actually affect the clutch gap, as this is set by how far forward the clutch bell is allowed to move - this is limited by the spacers on the thrust bearing carrier.

The reducing the end-play simply keeps the clutch bell at the "maximum" distance away from the clutch shoe. So once the clutch shoe starts to move, it doesn't have to push the clutch bell to the end position.
With too much end-play, the clutch shoe will have to push the clutch bell a certain distance and the force required to do this maybe what Robert notices - I don't think I would personally notice, but then again, I can't drive to save my life

Rmdhawaii, don't worry about looking for the movement in the clutch bell, I doubt you'll see it - just feel it. If you don't feel any fore-aft movement, simply take out another 0.1mm spacer until you can feel slight push-pull movement.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:50 PM   #5366
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Mark - Gut! Alles klar! Danke
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:52 PM   #5367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markp27
The end-play doesn't actually affect the clutch gap, as this is set by how far forward the clutch bell is allowed to move - this is limited by the spacers on the thrust bearing carrier.

The reducing the end-play simply keeps the clutch bell at the "maximum" distance away from the clutch shoe. So once the clutch shoe starts to move, it doesn't have to push the clutch bell to the end position.
With too much end-play, the clutch shoe will have to push the clutch bell a certain distance and the force required to do this maybe what Robert notices - I don't think I would personally notice, but then again, I can't drive to save my life

Rmdhawaii, don't worry about looking for the movement in the clutch bell, I doubt you'll see it - just feel it. If you don't feel any fore-aft movement, simply take out another 0.1mm spacer until you can feel slight push-pull movement.

Cheers, Mark.
Mark that is exaclty waht I am talking about that extra movement the clutch needs to engage.....I am gonna experiment next couple of weeks with different things and let you know how it goes......also i want to try that front diff thing you guys are talking about ....what would I need to build the front diff....I always use one-ways so i dont know what parts i would need and if the kit came with it.......

Thanks in advance........
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:53 PM   #5368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert maestrey
Totally agree with mark...Very little end play is what I look for......I thinkif you have to much its like changing your gap dont know if this makes any sense.......
Hey rob did you sign up for the Cup
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:03 PM   #5369
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Quote:
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Mark - Gut! Alles klar! Danke
Gern geschehen
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:08 PM   #5370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert maestrey


Mark that is exaclty waht I am talking about that extra movement the clutch needs to engage.....I am gonna experiment next couple of weeks with different things and let you know how it goes......also i want to try that front diff thing you guys are talking about ....what would I need to build the front diff....I always use one-ways so i dont know what parts i would need and if the kit came with it.......

Thanks in advance........
I'd be interested to hear your results about the clutch movement

The parts list for the front diff is as follows:

VZ204 - Diff Housings front + rear + screws and seals.
VZ012 - Gear set including spacers and rubber grommets - enough for two diffs.
BS107 - Bevel shafts - enough for three diffs.
VZ218 - Outdrives for the front diff

There is a front diff housing with the RRR kit, but the rest you'll have to get.

Thinks that's all.


Cheers, Mark.
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