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Old 03-11-2006, 11:33 AM   #5281
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I was wondering, what is the best method of measuring the toe angle ?

I mean without the use of setup stations.
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:38 PM   #5282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
The car is built per the kit contents and setup sheet - plus, I was strongly advised to build the car per the setup sheet. As a beginner, ultimately, this was good advice as it is a good starting setup for the car.
The standard setup is a good place to start, as you have a known working setup where the basic components should be in balance with each other. This allows you to make changes in specific areas in an attempt to improve the overall handling. Those things you try which improve the car you keep and those which don't simply reset back to how they were previously.

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With the current setup I'm using, I have a few troublespots on the track, but if I follow a certain racing line and slow down in certain sections, I can make it around the track okay. I'm sure I could shave another 5 seconds off my lap times once I fix things.
Sounds like you're aproaching it from the right direction. It is all to easy to overdrive the car at first, leading to mistakes. Take it easy and learn the track well. Getting the braking points right is very important.

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I think I just need to adjust a few things and the understeer problem will go away. Here is the plan:

1. Adjust the track width back to 200mm. The new tires I ran last weekend shortened the track width to 197mm. Because I didn't know better to adjust the steering throw the first time I raced, the front shock end caps got all scraped up, so I adjusted it after putting on the new tires. As a result of the 197mm track width, the tires were closer to the steering endcap than they should have been, which caused me to ultimately over adjust the steering throw. Once I go back to 200mm, it will give me the clearance so that I can actually turn more.
You need to be careful with the track width, as going too narrow can make the car very twichy. Keep the 200mm width until you feel you need a more agressive setup. Also don't worry about the shock ball-end caps getting scrubbed from the inside of the rims - mine does this, too. If I setup my steering throw, so that the ball-end caps don't get scrubbed, then I don't feel I have enough steering. You should setup the steering throw as shown in the RRR manual.
If you are still worried about the ball-end caps being scrubbed, you can always file down the inside of the rims a little on your tyre truer.

Quote:
2. After disassemblying the front right suspension (I broke the top arm and split the front hub in two at the drive shaft - more below) and taking off the front bumper, I discovered that the right front set screw for the front stabilizer was set to far down, practially locking down the front right. As a result, there was very little movement of the right front suspension arm
If I were in your shoes, I would first do some basic checks on your car. First I would suggest is for you to check the suspension arm pins are all straight. If all is ok, re-assemble the suspension arms checking to make sure that the roll-centre inserts are all the correct way around, and that the correspond to the settings in the stock setup sheet.
Make sure you don't re-mount the shocks and disconnect the front anti-roll bar. Now check that both the left and right arms fall down under their own weight. Their movement should me light and smooth.
Check that the upper arms don't have any fore/aft play in them. Push and pull the upper arms - if there is some play (which there is in the standard kit), then you'll need to put a thin metal washer behind the caster clip to remove any play. Once you've done this check once more that the arms still fall under their own weight.

Next step is to set the droop - again do this without the front anti-roll bar being attached. Set the droop on either side as pre the stock setup sheet. Once both sides are setup correctly, then you can re-connect the front anti-roll bar. It is now important that you check the droop again - you're checking for tweak caused by the anti-roll bar.
Using the tweak adjusting leavers on the lower arms, adjust the droop until both sides are correct.

Before re-attaching your shocks, ensure that the shock shafts move in and out of the body nice and smoothly. Listen to see if there is air in the shocks when you push-pull the piston - if there is air in there, you'll hear a squelshing sort of a noise.
If you don't know what oil is in there or how long it has been in there, throw it out and rebuild the shocks according the the assembly instructions. If the shocks don't work, you're never going to get a good setup.

Repeat the above with the rear suspension assembly, anti-roll bar and shocks.

This will ensure that any of the problems you have aren't coming from any of these components.

Something else that is important to check is the condition of the ball bearings. You're going to have to take them all out and check to see if they are gritty. Clean them out with a degreaser (brake cleaner or something similar), allow them to dry and then use a very light oil to lubricate them.
If any are still gritty after doing this, then I would replace them - they can cause a dragging effect which upsets the handling of your car.

Check you diff is correctly assembled - the diff should have a nice smooth action and shouldn't feel notchy (you will feel the teeth of the gears inside the diff engaging, but this feeling should be quite subtle).
Open up the diff and check to make sure there isn't too much or too little oil in there. My preference is about 60% full - the oil should just be above the bevel shafts. Too much can cause the diff to be quite notchy and too little gives strange handling effects.

Quote:
Because of the race day time constraints, I really need to make some smart choices when making adjustments.
Completely agree with you - for this reason, make sure all the components of your car are working correctly - only when you have 100% confidence in your car can you be sure that setup changes will improve the handling to your liking. Invest the time and you'll get the rewards.

Quote:
If I had a tuning day, I could try everything everyone is recommending, but I can really only make a few minor adjustments on race day, run a few laps and then assess the impact of the changes. Because I'm still new a this, driving a slightly new course, assessing changes and deciding what to adjust next is proving to be quite challenging. Tack on a slipping clutch and engine tuning and I've got my hands full. I know that things will get better over time, but right now - it's kinda stressful!
You're right - it is stressful and you never seem to have enough time to try the things you wish. Preperation is 90% of the battle, though. A 100% sorted car gets you most of the way there.
Try and prepare somethings to try out before your practice sessions start (as long as the sessions are more than 5 minutes, you should be able to achieve some improvements). Springs + Droop are my favourite quickies Do 3 or 4 laps and try and evaluate where your car needs to be improved. More steering on turn-in.....change to softer front springs - check ride height is still ok and hit the track again for 3 or 4 laps. Need more turn in.....increase the rear droop (turn out the droop screws a quater turn on each side).
More steering on the exit of a corner.....harder rear springs - check ride height and hit the track again. Still not enough, decrease front droop (turn in the screws a quater turn).

These are all pretty rough changes, but if your time is limited, then this is all you can really do.
Remember don't waste time running a setup that doesn't work - if you feel it isn't working well, come in asap and change the appropriate setting.

If you find the car is understeering a lot or is very loose, probably your tyres are too hard. Have a couple of sets of tyres in the pits of the same size but with different shores - quickly change them and see how they improve things.

Once your session is over, keep those settings which worked and reset those which didn't. Also you'll need to setup your car properly after the quick changes in the session.

Quote:
Questions: I need to adjust the camber if I want to address the right rear coning problem. I've been reading that going to more negative rear camber will cause understeer. If I do fixes #1 and #2, I don't want to end up with another understeering problem! Can I just adjust the camber without adjusting the toe in or do I need to do both? Does adjusting the rear toe in offset the camber adjustment?? Thanks!
Camber is something which I don't play around with too much. I start off with the basic camber settings of front 1.5 degrees and rear 2.5 degrees. After a session, I'll adjust the camber so that the front tyres wear flat and the rears are slightly coned. That's all - I don't adjust the camber to sort out handling problems as long as the tyres aren't coning funny.
More likely to effect your handling are the rear diff and toe-in/out settings.

Front toe-out I generally leave at about 1 degree, the rear I'll set to about 2 degrees toe-in - I adjust the rear to fine-tune the amount of steering I have on power. As long as you make sure you adjust your rear toe correctly, it won't affect your camber. To give more toe in, turn the front ball in and the rear ball out by exactly the same amount - turning only one of the balls, will affect the tracking width and the camber.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Mark.

PS: Read the 710 FAQ in my signature - there are lots of setup tips which are also applicable to the RRR. There are also lots of tips on maintenence which you'll find useful.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:11 PM   #5283
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I'm looking for the Kawahara Rear Adjustable Blade Type Anti Roll Bar Set for V One RRR, Precion used to carry it, but no longer do, any body know who might?
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:44 PM   #5284
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markp27 - Wow! Thanks! Excellent!
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:02 PM   #5285
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You're welcome - glad to help out.

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:07 PM   #5286
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Excellent Mark
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:17 PM   #5287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougday
Excellent Mark
Mr Day I missed you at the last state race I hope to see you at the kyosho cup.....
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:20 PM   #5288
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When is Kyosho cup?

Did not plan on making it as I am repairing my house after a garbage truck ran thru it.

Can I run outlaw?
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Old 03-11-2006, 03:35 PM   #5289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougday
Excellent Mark
Thanks, Doug - were you at the winternats this year?

Cheers, Mark.
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Old 03-11-2006, 08:14 PM   #5290
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well done Mark !!!!
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Kyosho- Sirio/ OS engine- AVID bearing- Blue thunder fuel- Proline- RC dynamite- Sanwa- RC Art
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:23 PM   #5291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markp27
Thanks, Doug - were you at the winternats this year?

Cheers, Mark.
Yes,

I ran 1/8th masters...Did 2 laps in the A before being t boned.

It was a bit cold the first few days but it warmed up by wednesday and we did have a ball.
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:25 PM   #5292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert maestrey
Mr Day I missed you at the last state race I hope to see you at the kyosho cup.....
Loo ks like I will make the kyosho cup
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:52 PM   #5293
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Awesome doug......Ill see you there.....are you staying over until the state race the week after.....doug pm your # I left a message on one of your phones dont know if you got it
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Old 03-11-2006, 11:36 PM   #5294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert maestrey
Awesome doug......Ill see you there.....are you staying over until the state race the week after.....doug pm your # I left a message on one of your phones dont know if you got it
Yes, I will be staying for the state race. Have to get a second place trophy and I already have one drop.
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:28 AM   #5295
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hey guys,

im having difficulty extending my rear with to 200mm without my drive shafts popping from my diff outdrives. How do you resolve this? thanks
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