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Old 08-30-2005, 04:46 AM   #3751
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Originally Posted by deviltires
i want to know how can i get the most steering out of my car for some really small tracks right now i have the locker in my front diff with the number 10 steering acer in is there anything else that i need to do to get more steering
here are some ideas i can think of hope it can help

- more rear droop
- decrease front roll center
- decrease rear toe in
- decrease the front track width (the distance between 2 of the front tyres)
- decrease caster (more intial turn in but less mid corner steering)
- increase slightly the front camber angle.
- and running a softer front end.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:19 AM   #3752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainTeased
here are some ideas i can think of hope it can help

- more rear droop
- decrease front roll center
- decrease rear toe in
- decrease the front track width (the distance between 2 of the front tyres)
- decrease caster (more intial turn in but less mid corner steering)
- increase slightly the front camber angle.
- and running a softer front end.
And flatten the roll bar
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:40 AM   #3753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deviltires
i want to know how can i get the most steering out of my car for some really small tracks right now i have the locker in my front diff with the number 10 steering acer in is there anything else that i need to do to get more steering
TRY:- Laying down the front shocks.
- Use lighter front shock oil.
- A softer front spring.
- Softer front tires.
- RAISING the roll-center by increasing the height of the front hinge pin mounts.
- Moving the caster clips to the front of the upper arm (when using a front diff or spool).
- Use the #12 servo saver / ackerman(SP?) mount.

Any one, or combination, of these changes should definitely increase your steering.

*Note: Changes made to the rear end will result in "freeing" up the rear, which allows the car to rotate thru the corner better, but will not have enough effect on the front end.
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Last edited by kewdawg; 08-30-2005 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:47 AM   #3754
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i heard these cars are like very expensive....are they?
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:04 PM   #3755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kewdawg
- RAISING the roll-center by increasing the height of the front hinge pin mounts..
This will lower the roll centre. If you want to raise the roll centre you have to lower the hinge pins and this will give you less steering response

Cheers
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:11 PM   #3756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bahnatka
i heard these cars are like very expensive....are they?
It really depend's how hard you look. Iv'e found them from $370 to $420usd. If your intrested, ill look around for you. It's aways good to have another RRR pilot on board..
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:29 PM   #3757
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Originally Posted by Little Bahnatka
i heard these cars are like very expensive....are they?
Rich kids like yourself, shouldn't have any diffficulties obtaining one.
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:38 PM   #3758
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o, ok kewdawg i see how you doo i guess ill have to get the poormans car...the g4
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:56 PM   #3759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
This will lower the roll centre. If you want to raise the roll centre you have to lower the hinge pins and this will give you less steering response

Cheers
Just the opposite. The higher and or the more level the camber link, the more traction you'll have.
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:00 PM   #3760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bahnatka
o, ok kewdawg i see how you doo i guess ill have to get the poormans car...the g4
You'll be just as fast, don't worry.
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Old 08-30-2005, 02:09 PM   #3761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kewdawg
Just the opposite. The higher and or the more level the camber link, the more traction you'll have.
What I say and what you say are the same thing. The more level the camber link the higher the insert and so the lower the roll centre and more traction but less stability over bumps.
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Old 08-30-2005, 02:13 PM   #3762
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Hey, I'm looking to get a hold of some V-One series front universals. Towerhobbies has all that stuff as discontinued....

...so where are you guys buying parts from???
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:14 PM   #3763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
What I say and what you say are the same thing. The more level the camber link the higher the insert and so the lower the roll centre and more traction but less stability over bumps.
I said, "and or" for reason. Depending on the vehicle - Take our RRR for example: the natural(designed) position of the rear camber link has an angle (angled upward). To increase the roll center, you would need to make the link more level (horizontal) by lowering lower the link's outer position - because the inner position only moves further inward, toward the center of the car (you can also increase traction by lengthening the link - depending on the suspension design). On a car with vertical inner camber link mounts (say a TC4, for example) you would have the ability to raise the inner link horizontally, which would also raise the roll-center and increase traction. On our Triple R's rear end, the camber link already has an angle to it. If, you make the link higher, by increasing the outer position, you'll increase the angle and lower the roll-center - thus, reducing traction. The same applies to the front end, which has a natural angle to the upper arm. If, you lower the hinge pin / mount, you will increase the angle, lower the roll-center and reduce traction. The angled link does not allow the car's weight to go to the tire, at that corner of the car, when cornering. The more horizontal OR higher AND horizontal link will allow the car's weight to shift to the wheel in a more linear fashion.

To put it simple, the direction you move the link depends on the links' natural position.
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:48 PM   #3764
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I think both of you are thinking of the same thing just stating it in different manners.

Also, I don't think you can call it increasing or decreasing roll center because the "roll center" is an actual point or points on the car, not a quatitative value .

This is my easy way to figure out roll center. The farther apart the upper and lower arms are from each other, the lower the roll center and the more traction you get at that end of the car.
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Old 08-31-2005, 04:43 PM   #3765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kewdawg
I said, "and or" for reason. Depending on the vehicle - Take our RRR for example: the natural(designed) position of the rear camber link has an angle (angled upward). To increase the roll center, you would need to make the link more level (horizontal) by lowering lower the link's outer position - because the inner position only moves further inward, toward the center of the car (you can also increase traction by lengthening the link - depending on the suspension design). On a car with vertical inner camber link mounts (say a TC4, for example) you would have the ability to raise the inner link horizontally, which would also raise the roll-center and increase traction. On our Triple R's rear end, the camber link already has an angle to it. If, you make the link higher, by increasing the outer position, you'll increase the angle and lower the roll-center - thus, reducing traction. The same applies to the front end, which has a natural angle to the upper arm. If, you lower the hinge pin / mount, you will increase the angle, lower the roll-center and reduce traction. The angled link does not allow the car's weight to go to the tire, at that corner of the car, when cornering. The more horizontal OR higher AND horizontal link will allow the car's weight to shift to the wheel in a more linear fashion.

To put it simple, the direction you move the link depends on the links' natural position.
Sorry cant let this go!

Your arse about face. Lowering the hinge pin at the front as you mention will RAISE the roll centre

If you make the link at the rear horizontal you will LOWER the roll centre

I will PM you the geometry that will prove this

Cheers
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