new engine woes (novarossi rs12)
08-05-2004, 07:52 PM
#31
Re: WOT Break- In method ¡¡¡WHY!!!
Originally posted by afm
I cany remember where i got this good explanation of why should one brek-in engines at WOT, but here it goes, since then my engines last me longer which a lot more power.
AFM
I cany remember where i got this good explanation of why should one brek-in engines at WOT, but here it goes, since then my engines last me longer which a lot more power.
AFM
and on that note i will give it a try.
and just so i understand.
1. start engine (factory default setting) and bring get some temperature in it.
2. open top end needle 1 turn
3. open throttle all the way and hold it there
4. open top end needle until the enging flames out, then close it 1/4 turn
5. restart the engine and hold full throttle for 3 tanks.
6. let engine cool for 15-30 minutesk
7. reate steps 1 - 6 again (but for 2 tanks instead of 3 (step 5) ).
8. on the 3rd tank close the top end needle 1/4 turn.
9. do not hold full throttle, but give 2-3 sec. blips of full throttle for 1/2 tank.
10 after 1/2 tank close the top end needle another 1/4 turn and continue "blipping"
11. continue closing 1/4 turn and "blipping" for ever 1/4 tank, untill you have run a GRAND total of 8 tanks.
12. let the engine cool for 15-30 minutes.
13. (cut/paste): Allow the engine to cool for 15-30 minutes and then you are ready to hit the race track. Drive two tanks rich around the track slowly closing the top end needle sneaking up on that perfect mixture. At the end of the second tank your engine should be tuned to race speed. This will give you a total of 10 tanks of fuel through your engine before you really start to lean the mixture for ultimate power.
gotcha!
08-06-2004, 06:02 AM
#32
WOT on the starter box...OK guys go ahead...its your dollars. My information is straight from the manufacturer...but hey run your engine at WOT on the box. I am sure the LHS will love you for it.
Josh's method might work, but to suggest this method to someone new? I am sure you guys have started your engine at one point and forgot to turn on the receiver. What happened? The engine reved uncontrollably right?
For someone new do the break in on the track. Talk to the manufacturers. I suggest you send an email to Novarossi and see what their reply is. Send one to Ralph Burch, or even Barry Baker.
Pack, choose whatever breakin method you like. Its your dollars at the end of the day. However if you break in your car on the starter box you can easily damage the parts. There is no LOAD on the engine and you could easily over-rev it if you are not carefull. Be safe, take your time and use a different method. If you do not have access to a break-in bench then do it on the track.
There is no single way to break in a motor. My way, someone elses, whatever. But remember that you must put the motor under load to break it in properly. If you do not you will have issues. Maybe not now. Maybe you won't even relate them to the break in, but eventually you will.
I simply ask you this...did my heating up the motor idea work?
All the best and good luck,
john
Josh's method might work, but to suggest this method to someone new? I am sure you guys have started your engine at one point and forgot to turn on the receiver. What happened? The engine reved uncontrollably right?
For someone new do the break in on the track. Talk to the manufacturers. I suggest you send an email to Novarossi and see what their reply is. Send one to Ralph Burch, or even Barry Baker.
Pack, choose whatever breakin method you like. Its your dollars at the end of the day. However if you break in your car on the starter box you can easily damage the parts. There is no LOAD on the engine and you could easily over-rev it if you are not carefull. Be safe, take your time and use a different method. If you do not have access to a break-in bench then do it on the track.
There is no single way to break in a motor. My way, someone elses, whatever. But remember that you must put the motor under load to break it in properly. If you do not you will have issues. Maybe not now. Maybe you won't even relate them to the break in, but eventually you will.
I simply ask you this...did my heating up the motor idea work?
All the best and good luck,
john
08-06-2004, 06:16 AM
#33
Originally posted by jrabbito
WOT on the starter box...OK guys go ahead...its your dollars. My information is straight from the manufacturer...but hey run your engine at WOT on the box. I am sure the LHS will love you for it.
Josh's method might work, but to suggest this method to someone new? I am sure you guys have started your engine at one point and forgot to turn on the receiver. What happened? The engine reved uncontrollably right?
For someone new do the break in on the track. Talk to the manufacturers. I suggest you send an email to Novarossi and see what their reply is. Send one to Ralph Burch, or even Barry Baker.
Pack, choose whatever breakin method you like. Its your dollars at the end of the day. However if you break in your car on the starter box you can easily damage the parts. There is no LOAD on the engine and you could easily over-rev it if you are not carefull. Be safe, take your time and use a different method. If you do not have access to a break-in bench then do it on the track.
There is no single way to break in a motor. My way, someone elses, whatever. But remember that you must put the motor under load to break it in properly. If you do not you will have issues. Maybe not now. Maybe you won't even relate them to the break in, but eventually you will.
I simply ask you this...did my heating up the motor idea work?
All the best and good luck,
john
WOT on the starter box...OK guys go ahead...its your dollars. My information is straight from the manufacturer...but hey run your engine at WOT on the box. I am sure the LHS will love you for it.
Josh's method might work, but to suggest this method to someone new? I am sure you guys have started your engine at one point and forgot to turn on the receiver. What happened? The engine reved uncontrollably right?
For someone new do the break in on the track. Talk to the manufacturers. I suggest you send an email to Novarossi and see what their reply is. Send one to Ralph Burch, or even Barry Baker.
Pack, choose whatever breakin method you like. Its your dollars at the end of the day. However if you break in your car on the starter box you can easily damage the parts. There is no LOAD on the engine and you could easily over-rev it if you are not carefull. Be safe, take your time and use a different method. If you do not have access to a break-in bench then do it on the track.
There is no single way to break in a motor. My way, someone elses, whatever. But remember that you must put the motor under load to break it in properly. If you do not you will have issues. Maybe not now. Maybe you won't even relate them to the break in, but eventually you will.
I simply ask you this...did my heating up the motor idea work?
All the best and good luck,
john
do you think that the load of a propeller on a break-in bench is more than that of a 4wd system? though it may sound like i have never broken in an engine, i actually have (can you believe that?) just not under the understanding of these sorts of techniques. but if there is a good method for breakin, why would not suggest it to someone who IS working on his first engine? or are you saying that NO ONE should use the WOT method?
thanks your help has saving power!
08-06-2004, 07:28 AM
#34
The WOT technique came into existance from the break in bench. The proprler does provide sufficient resistance and load and it is MUCH higher than that of a 4wd system. From there the WOT technique was adapted to the starter box.
Why people recommend it I ohnestly have no idea. These engines can take ALOT of abuse but with the new motors the tolerances are so extreme that damage can easily occur.
The information I am getting is straight from Italy. It is actually from Massimo Fantini (Max Engines). He builds the engines and also races. There are many methods out there, and I am sure that most work sufficiently. However from my experience I have seen identical motors with proper and improper break in methods used. The power difference is SCARY. All I can say is that the break in is extrememly critical to engine performance. Do it wrong and just kissed goodbye to that extra HP you paid for.
Just follow what I said. When the car is on the pavement push is cycling the rpm up and down. Remember to let it cool down after each tank. My point is the method I have mentioned is almost fool proof. Anyone can do this. The throttle is set to 50% so there is no worry of over revving it. Just ensure that engine temp is between 200-215F and your good. If its lower than that you will get premature conrod wear. That being said if you race you should change the conrod after the first wekend you run the motor. 90% of the conrod wear is during break-in.
Bottom line. Choose which ever method seems EASIEST to you. WOT on a starter box to me seems insane. I don't care who recommends it.
Good Luck,
John
Why people recommend it I ohnestly have no idea. These engines can take ALOT of abuse but with the new motors the tolerances are so extreme that damage can easily occur.
The information I am getting is straight from Italy. It is actually from Massimo Fantini (Max Engines). He builds the engines and also races. There are many methods out there, and I am sure that most work sufficiently. However from my experience I have seen identical motors with proper and improper break in methods used. The power difference is SCARY. All I can say is that the break in is extrememly critical to engine performance. Do it wrong and just kissed goodbye to that extra HP you paid for.
Just follow what I said. When the car is on the pavement push is cycling the rpm up and down. Remember to let it cool down after each tank. My point is the method I have mentioned is almost fool proof. Anyone can do this. The throttle is set to 50% so there is no worry of over revving it. Just ensure that engine temp is between 200-215F and your good. If its lower than that you will get premature conrod wear. That being said if you race you should change the conrod after the first wekend you run the motor. 90% of the conrod wear is during break-in.
Bottom line. Choose which ever method seems EASIEST to you. WOT on a starter box to me seems insane. I don't care who recommends it.
Good Luck,
John
08-06-2004, 07:55 AM
#35
Originally posted by jrabbito
To make a long story short this is the best method to break in a motor. i have seen it posted/mentioned here also.
#1 Set your throttle servo so that when you squeeze you are at 50% max throttle.
#2 After you start your engine get the temp between 200-215F. This is where you will need to get it to "heat cycle" it. thats what breaking-in is.
#3 Do the whole break in on the track/parking lot. The WOT(Wide open throttle) suggestion is good ONLY if you have a break-in bench. Otherwise you will damage something. The engine NEEDS load.
Run about 5 tanks through it and your done. After that open up the servo/throttle and run the sixth hard. You can lean out from here to 265-275 (safe range).
Simple and effective.
To make a long story short this is the best method to break in a motor. i have seen it posted/mentioned here also.
#1 Set your throttle servo so that when you squeeze you are at 50% max throttle.
#2 After you start your engine get the temp between 200-215F. This is where you will need to get it to "heat cycle" it. thats what breaking-in is.
#3 Do the whole break in on the track/parking lot. The WOT(Wide open throttle) suggestion is good ONLY if you have a break-in bench. Otherwise you will damage something. The engine NEEDS load.
Run about 5 tanks through it and your done. After that open up the servo/throttle and run the sixth hard. You can lean out from here to 265-275 (safe range).
Simple and effective.
thanks again.
08-06-2004, 08:29 AM
#36
Yes. It really is that simple. Ensure that it is running clean (not 4 stroking). You should only need to touch the main needle. 5 tanks and then the 6th at full pace.
08-06-2004, 10:04 PM
#37
if i may ask another question - its about 65F (degrees) here in my part of the world. i am breaking in the engine and trying to keep it rich, but it does not get up to 200 degs. I hangs out at less than 150degs. should i keep leaning it out so that as i run at ~50% it gets up to 200degs or should i keep it rich?
from the discussion so far, it sounds like the vital part is getting the temp up but i dont want to lean it too much. i only have a couple of tanks through it so far.
from the discussion so far, it sounds like the vital part is getting the temp up but i dont want to lean it too much. i only have a couple of tanks through it so far.
08-07-2004, 07:02 AM
#38
Originally posted by jrabbito
WOT on the starter box...OK guys go ahead...its your dollars. My information is straight from the manufacturer...but hey run your engine at WOT on the box. I am sure the LHS will love you for it.
Josh's method might work, but to suggest this method to someone new? I am sure you guys have started your engine at one point and forgot to turn on the receiver. What happened? The engine reved uncontrollably right?
For someone new do the break in on the track. Talk to the manufacturers. I suggest you send an email to Novarossi and see what their reply is. Send one to Ralph Burch, or even Barry Baker.
Pack, choose whatever breakin method you like. Its your dollars at the end of the day. However if you break in your car on the starter box you can easily damage the parts. There is no LOAD on the engine and you could easily over-rev it if you are not carefull. Be safe, take your time and use a different method. If you do not have access to a break-in bench then do it on the track.
There is no single way to break in a motor. My way, someone elses, whatever. But remember that you must put the motor under load to break it in properly. If you do not you will have issues. Maybe not now. Maybe you won't even relate them to the break in, but eventually you will.
I simply ask you this...did my heating up the motor idea work?
All the best and good luck,
john
WOT on the starter box...OK guys go ahead...its your dollars. My information is straight from the manufacturer...but hey run your engine at WOT on the box. I am sure the LHS will love you for it.
Josh's method might work, but to suggest this method to someone new? I am sure you guys have started your engine at one point and forgot to turn on the receiver. What happened? The engine reved uncontrollably right?
For someone new do the break in on the track. Talk to the manufacturers. I suggest you send an email to Novarossi and see what their reply is. Send one to Ralph Burch, or even Barry Baker.
Pack, choose whatever breakin method you like. Its your dollars at the end of the day. However if you break in your car on the starter box you can easily damage the parts. There is no LOAD on the engine and you could easily over-rev it if you are not carefull. Be safe, take your time and use a different method. If you do not have access to a break-in bench then do it on the track.
There is no single way to break in a motor. My way, someone elses, whatever. But remember that you must put the motor under load to break it in properly. If you do not you will have issues. Maybe not now. Maybe you won't even relate them to the break in, but eventually you will.
I simply ask you this...did my heating up the motor idea work?
All the best and good luck,
john
But again, it is racer's choice how to brak in engine and I will sugest only to make as much as possible researches to find out which method is most suitble in particular case.
Edward
Last edited by Top Gun 777; 08-07-2004 at 07:11 AM.
08-07-2004, 07:27 AM
#39
Josh's method has fuel load on it. Even though it's WOT the engine is not screaming by any means, there is a ton of fuel (and oil) going through the engine. I guess the only way to tell is try it (which I am). The main diff with his method is instead of idling through the first few tanks w/low fuel volume, his method raises the RPM with greatly increased fuel and oil, after that it's several tanks on the track like all others; the temp on mine at idle was about 150F; after a tank at WOT it was 110F, you could watch the temp fall immediately after the fuel got flowing at WOT. I'm sure people will have their opinions on this but I have never seen Josh with a slow engine.
08-07-2004, 09:14 AM
#40
HAHA HAAAA HA HAAAAAAH AHAAH WEOOOOOOOOOOO... that terry tate joint is just about the funniest thing i have ever seen
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