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Old 06-08-2012, 08:51 AM   #691
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DJ,

Thank u very much for your explanation.Much appreciated.

How about the front track width? How does it affect On and Off Power steering?

Best Regards.
The narrower the front, the more steering you get going into the corner and the more responsive the car is left to right. It can make the car a little more nervous if the track has high bite.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #692
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DJ,

Once again, Thank U !
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #693
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Definitely use the eccentrics before you start making to many changes. If you can get them in time.

DJ
Is this the part number CAP-2153?

What about bearing size since they will have to be smaller.

Thanks
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:31 PM   #694
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I would say you will typically use stock rears at almost every track and mugen white front springs. I would have in your bag stock fronts and rears, blue fronts and red rears from Capricorn. A set of progressive springs also. Then have mugen whites for the front. If I were to back to LA and race I would start with the Progressive all around with 1 and 2 hole and 55wt oil.

DJ
D.J. so your coming back to L.A.?

WWW.ACORNRACINGUSA.COM
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:02 PM   #695
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D.J. so your coming back to L.A.?

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FOR THE SERIOUS NITRO ON-ROAD RACERS
I would like to. I am looking into it. It looks like the flights and stuff are more for these dates. If i come i will only run 1 class. I want to have more fun and last time i just worked the entire time and if not for Kenny, i would not have even made the 1/8 main. He did my entire car for the final. If we come again i think he will run 1/8 and i will run sedan.

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Old 06-17-2012, 05:52 AM   #696
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Hi DJ,

1) In general,how tight do u set the clutch spring for a medium to high grip track?

2) Front camber, do u set so that the tyres wear evenly/ flat ? Or do u set to get more/ less steering,More for car handling purpose n not tire wear/ coning?

3) I noticed drivers running harder Tire compound at the rear. Is it to achieve more steering? Or is it for wear rate purposes?

Thanks
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:54 AM   #697
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Hi DJ,

1) In general,how tight do u set the clutch spring for a medium to high grip track?

2) Front camber, do u set so that the tyres wear evenly/ flat ? Or do u set to get more/ less steering,More for car handling purpose n not tire wear/ coning?

3) I noticed drivers running harder Tire compound at the rear. Is it to achieve more steering? Or is it for wear rate purposes?

Thanks
1. What spring are you using?

2. Front tires I use with just a little noticeable camber. If I have no much steering than I use them flat. If I need more steering I give more camber as a quick fix and them after the qual I will try and work on the car to get the steering I want with normal camber.

3. Mainly for wear purposes to keep the car consistent through the runs.



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Old 06-18-2012, 01:01 PM   #698
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Dear DJ

While you are about to answer a question about clutch set-up, I thougt you maybe could extend your answer a bit.

I'm all new into 1/8, but have drove 1/12 for three years. So theres a lot to learn about nitroengines, break-in, tuning, clutch etc. The set-up of the car come more easily.

I got my C801 in late march, and it came with the normal black steel clutch, a red shoe and a spring measuring 1,98 in thickness, 12,1 in diameter and 11,1 in height. The manual says the spring should have number 2122, wich should equal the extra hard clutch spring. I have to dremel it a bit in both ends to get it to fit nicely in the spring stay and preload nut. All setup as stated in the manual (gab 0,5, preload 0,6, endplay 0,1). During break-in the shoe dusted a lot and wear all down within 1 to 1 liter of fuel and engaged way too late.

I get a yellow shoe and a spring measuring 1,92-12,0-9,8 and it worked ok with a gab of 0,5 and a preload of 0,9 (it shold be a number 417 spring) - allthough there was some spin during acceleration, but it could for sure be me and my rookiedriving 1/8 and/or a low grib track. Most of the tracks here in Denmark are low to medium traction tracks.

I have got a complete reverse clutch from the first batch delivered end april, wich was with a alucolored alu clutch bell (hardcoated?) and a spring measuring 1,98 in thickness, 12,1 in diameter and 11,1 in height (Same specs as the spring delivered in my C801 kit with spring number 2122). I build the reverse clutch with the 417-spring and currently driving with a gab of 0,65 and a preload of 0,8-0,9. Endplay 0,1. The wear of the clutch shoe is very little, but the bell has worn 0.15 mm on 4 liter fuel ... I think its much, and the are 0,1 mm back in the bell before I cant shim it up anymore). The clutch shoe looks right with a slight brown color on it, but with the yellow color still visible throug it.
I have ordered a spring with hardness between the two springs to try the reverse clutch with this (Think it is number 417s), as I think the reverse clutch behave differently than the normal clutch ... engaging more smoothly with the same spring.

I have just received a complete reverse clutch more, but here the clutch bell is a black steel version (but still with the new beraring configuration) and a spring with the same measurements as my 417-spring. The steel version I welcome regarding to my wear on the alu version ... even it could be caused by a bad adjusted clutch from my side. But I cant figure out why the spring was changed, since the reverse clutch has been tested by teamdrivers before release.

Neverles - my question is:

How to set a clutch up for low traction tracks (I thing of a bit shorter gab and a little les preload and a bit softer spring) ... with gab, preload and springtype?

Is the correct rating in hardnes of the springs (from soft to hard) 417, 417s, 417sh and 2122 (standard, meduim (silvercolor), super hard and extra hard)?

And wich should be advicely used with the normal black steel clutch bell, the reverse alu clutch bell and the reverse black steel clutch bell?

Have capricorn tested with clutch spring washers, and could we espect these in the near future? I see some advantages within the possibilities to adjust the "springhardness" according to the combination of the number of thick and thin washers.

Kind regards and best wishes; Jens
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:50 AM   #699
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This is great! Superb tech support. Looks like I'll be enjoying my new Capricorn !

DJ: If increasing the front camber generate more grip, I supposed the same theory applies to the rear. However, it what situation do you adjust the thickness of the washers between the rear hub and rear top A-arm ? The thicker the washer I take it means more camber change during suspension compression, would this increase or decrease rear end grip?

Cheers
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:20 AM   #700
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Originally Posted by jensroland View Post
Dear DJ

While you are about to answer a question about clutch set-up, I thought you maybe could extend your answer a bit.

I'm all new into 1/8, but have drove 1/12 for three years. So theres a lot to learn about nitroengines, break-in, tuning, clutch etc. The set-up of the car come more easily.

I got my C801 in late march, and it came with the normal black steel clutch, a red shoe and a spring measuring 1,98 in thickness, 12,1 in diameter and 11,1 in height. The manual says the spring should have number 2122, which should equal the extra hard clutch spring. I have to dremel it a bit in both ends to get it to fit nicely in the spring stay and preload nut. All setup as stated in the manual (gab 0,5, preload 0,6, endplay 0,1). During break-in the shoe dusted a lot and wear all down within 1 to 1 liter of fuel and engaged way too late.

I get a yellow shoe and a spring measuring 1,92-12,0-9,8 and it worked ok with a gab of 0,5 and a preload of 0,9 (it should be a number 417 spring) - although there was some spin during acceleration, but it could for sure be me and my rookiedriving 1/8 and/or a low grib track. Most of the tracks here in Denmark are low to medium traction tracks.

I have got a complete reverse clutch from the first batch delivered end April, which was with a uncolored ALU clutch bell (hard coated?) and a spring measuring 1,98 in thickness, 12,1 in diameter and 11,1 in height (Same specs as the spring delivered in my C801 kit with spring number 2122). I build the reverse clutch with the 417-spring and currently driving with a gab of 0,65 and a preload of 0,8-0,9. End play 0,1. The wear of the clutch shoe is very little, but the bell has worn 0.15 mm on 4 liter fuel ... I think its much, and the are 0,1 mm back in the bell before I cant shim it up anymore). The clutch shoe looks right with a slight brown color on it, but with the yellow color still visible through it.
I have ordered a spring with hardness between the two springs to try the reverse clutch with this (Think it is number S), as I think the reverse clutch behave differently than the normal clutch ... engaging more smoothly with the same spring.

I have just received a complete reverse clutch more, but here the clutch bell is a black steel version (but still with the new beraring configuration) and a spring with the same measurements as my 417-spring. The steel version I welcome regarding to my wear on the alu version ... even it could be caused by a bad adjusted clutch from my side. But I cant figure out why the spring was changed, since the reverse clutch has been tested by teamdrivers before release.

Neverles - my question is:

How to set a clutch up for low traction tracks (I thing of a bit shorter gab and a little les preload and a bit softer spring) ... with gab, preload and springtype?

Is the correct rating in hardnes of the springs (from soft to hard) 417, 417s, 417sh and 2122 (standard, meduim (silvercolor), super hard and extra hard)?

And wich should be advicely used with the normal black steel clutch bell, the reverse alu clutch bell and the reverse black steel clutch bell?

Have capricorn tested with clutch spring washers, and could we aspect these in the near future? I see some advantages within the possibilities to adjust the "springhardness" according to the combination of the number of thick and thin washers.

Kind regards and best wishes; Jens
I hope I got all this. LOL!!!

I think the long and super hard spring is not good for most people. I personally like the 417 capricorn spring better for most tracks. This spring has a good and big sweet spot and the super hard long spring is too sensitive to adjust. The aluminum bell wears out fast. I stopped using it for that reason. I last for a race, but then you have to re adjust the gap and stuff. You have to be on top of it more often nd keep checking the gap.

I recommend using the yellow shoe all of the time and never the red.

You are correct with the idea of using less gap on track with lower bite. Also with less tension on the spring. You typically do one or the other, but not both. Unless there is just no bite at all.

You look to be correct with the springs. I have only tested the 417 and the super hard though. Not the 2 others.

The 2 clutch systems work really well. I think the stock one is easier to tune. I also think the steel bells are the most consistent on longer runs. The Alum is great for quals, since you can check it after each run, but for a 1 hour main it is not consistent enough for my liking.

I have not heard anything about the washer type system.

Hope this helps,

DJ Apolaro
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:26 AM   #701
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This is great! Superb tech support. Looks like I'll be enjoying my new Capricorn !

DJ: If increasing the front camber generate more grip, I supposed the same theory applies to the rear. However, it what situation do you adjust the thickness of the washers between the rear hub and rear top A-arm ? The thicker the washer I take it means more camber change during suspension compression, would this increase or decrease rear end grip?

Cheers
So, the camber in the rear does have a similar theory, however in 1/8 it seems that you can go to far and actually loose traction. This is based on my experience and not any book. I have seen that when I get too much angle in the rear tires I actually loose traction. I do not go more than 3 in the rear of 1/8.

As for the washers. This is the easiest way I can say it is. On the rear camber links;

The more angle in the link, the more OFF power traction and the more rotation you have at the apex and ON power.

The less angle in the link, the more OFF power rotation and the more traction you have at the apex and ON power.

The link affect the cars traction different depending on what part of the turn you are at.

Hope this helps,

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Old 06-20-2012, 06:42 AM   #702
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Hi DJ,

With regards to my question on clutch spring,I am using the 417 Medium spring.

I know this is difficult,how do u judge if the clutch spring is too tight or not tight enough?

With reference to peppernick's question:

"The more angle in the link, the more OFF power traction and the more rotation you have at the apex and ON power"

Do you mean that when you hit the throttle,the rear will step out more,and gives u more steering,ie...the increase in rotation is when u throttle only ( On Power Steering) ?

"The less angle in the link, the more OFF power rotation and the more traction you have at the apex and ON power."

So I guess,this means,when u lift off the throttle and turn into the corner,ie.....throttle neutral.....the rear will step out more (Off Power Steering)....

Am I understanding this correctly?

Thank U
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:32 PM   #703
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Hi DJ,

With regards to my question on clutch spring,I am using the 417 Medium spring.

I know this is difficult,how do u judge if the clutch spring is too tight or not tight enough?

With reference to peppernick's question:

"The more angle in the link, the more OFF power traction and the more rotation you have at the apex and ON power"

Do you mean that when you hit the throttle,the rear will step out more,and gives u more steering,ie...the increase in rotation is when u throttle only ( On Power Steering) ?

"The less angle in the link, the more OFF power rotation and the more traction you have at the apex and ON power."

So I guess,this means,when u lift off the throttle and turn into the corner,ie.....throttle neutral.....the rear will step out more (Off Power Steering)....

Am I understanding this correctly?

Thank U

For me when I am adjusting the clutch spring I want the motor to build up the RPM's as high as possible before it engages. This is of course without it being so tight that is slips to much.

I think you got it with the links....

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Old 06-21-2012, 06:17 AM   #704
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DJ,

Once again,Thank U very much for your replies n excellent information n support!!!

Much appreciated.

Best regards.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:32 AM   #705
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Anytime!!

I leave today for the Byron's Challenge so I will most likely not be on the Internet this weekend.

Good luck to everyone racing this weekend

DJ Apolaro
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