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Old 11-24-2010, 09:28 AM   #1
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Default Fastest line

Jus wanted to hear & get advice from experience guys.. How do you approach turns with your sedan also 1/8th to carry most corner speed.. Some tell me they use break going into turn some say don't break at all other say they tap the break load the front than turn.. What's your idea approach on some of the known tracks like fort myers, Kissimmee, GLC? Turn by turn. I try to let off, let car drift and turn with my 1/10th but it's slows down compared to lap times and when I gas it hard slam brake turn it's not consistent.. Help me out wit a good technique fast guys??
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:37 PM   #2
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This is a hard question to answer since it's pretty vague, but I'll try to give the most general help.

Depending on what the turn is, you basically try to do the out-in-out approach - start out wide, enter into the apex without hitting the corner, then exit wide.
Unfortunately it doesn't apply to all corners, such as a chicane. You just have to find the best line for that corner that gives you the best advantage for the next upcoming corner.
As for where to brake or go on-throttle, sometimes you can coast it into the corner and roll into it, then accelerate out, but you would probably find that slower. That only applies to a large radius IMO, but its a different story for 1/8s - in a corner where 1/10 would brake soft, the 1/8 would still be going full throttle, let off and dive straight in! I know this at a track I sometimes go to, absolutely wicked.
So all in all, just find the best/fastest line for you, and improve yourself until you find where you lack.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:52 PM   #3
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PRACTICE consistantly
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:54 PM   #4
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PRACTICE consistantly
That too!
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:43 PM   #5
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One of the most important things to remember is: Slow in, fast out.
Most beginning and average drivers have too much brake on their car and brake too late for a corner.
This completely loads up the front end and there isn't anymore actual grip available to negotiate the turn. When the car scrubbed off more speed by understeering into the corner you lost more speed then you would have liked to and you missed the apex. Because the car feels like it's understeering all the time most drivers will change their setup to have more steering, this compromises the rear end stability and thus making it harder to accelerate hard out of a corner because the back end will step out.

For example when I pass a slower driver on one of the connecting straights most brake way later then I do and almost rear end me, but when it's time to start accelerating I win 5-10 meters on them.

If you're not sure if you are running too much brake try deducting 15-25 points of EPA and start running. Figure out your new braking points and when you do start trying different lines and different points to start accelerating again.
This process will take you at least a day, but give it a try. 99% of the time you will need to change your setup as well.

Next thing is setting your total steering angle, before I will start adjusting my car to a certain track I decide on how much total steering angle I want to use.
You can use the following as a guide line:

-20-22 degrees on an open, flowing track
-24 degrees on a mixed track
-26-28 degrees on a tight, technical track.

Too much steering angle will create understeer.
When your car understeers or oversteers with these settings adjust setup accordingly. In the end you will have a smoother, faster car.

I also like to run -20 degrees of expo on the steering, gives the car a more natural feel.

If you want to know more about driving lines and techniques I suggest purchasing this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Drive-Win-Esse...ref=pd_sim_b_4

It covers everything you want to know.
Actually I can recommend the entire ..... to win series. Tune to win gives you a very good insight on car setup and basic aero stuff.
Engineering to win is more technical and helps you build a car which doesn't break down.

The nice thing about the ....to win series is that you don't have to be a qualified engineer to understand these books.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:09 PM   #6
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There's no way to explain it. You have to practice, constantly. You will go around a corner a certain way when you first start racing, and as your skills and car control improve, you will change the way you go around that corner. It takes confidence, and the only way to get confidence is to drive a lot. One thing you can do is watch the fastest guys, see where they hit the breaks and where they get back in the gas. Do this one corner at a time and you will get better.

practice, practice practice
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS Motorsport View Post
One of the most important things to remember is: Slow in, fast out.
Most beginning and average drivers have too much brake on their car and brake too late for a corner.
This completely loads up the front end and there isn't anymore actual grip available to negotiate the turn. When the car scrubbed off more speed by understeering into the corner you lost more speed then you would have liked to and you missed the apex. Because the car feels like it's understeering all the time most drivers will change their setup to have more steering, this compromises the rear end stability and thus making it harder to accelerate hard out of a corner because the back end will step out.

For example when I pass a slower driver on one of the connecting straights most brake way later then I do and almost rear end me, but when it's time to start accelerating I win 5-10 meters on them.

If you're not sure if you are running too much brake try deducting 15-25 points of EPA and start running. Figure out your new braking points and when you do start trying different lines and different points to start accelerating again.
This process will take you at least a day, but give it a try. 99% of the time you will need to change your setup as well.

Next thing is setting your total steering angle, before I will start adjusting my car to a certain track I decide on how much total steering angle I want to use.
You can use the following as a guide line:

-20-22 degrees on an open, flowing track
-24 degrees on a mixed track
-26-28 degrees on a tight, technical track.

Too much steering angle will create understeer.
When your car understeers or oversteers with these settings adjust setup accordingly. In the end you will have a smoother, faster car.

I also like to run -20 degrees of expo on the steering, gives the car a more natural feel.

If you want to know more about driving lines and techniques I suggest purchasing this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Drive-Win-Esse...ref=pd_sim_b_4

It covers everything you want to know.
Actually I can recommend the entire ..... to win series. Tune to win gives you a very good insight on car setup and basic aero stuff.
Engineering to win is more technical and helps you build a car which doesn't break down.

The nice thing about the ....to win series is that you don't have to be a qualified engineer to understand these books.
thank alot I will get that book
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:46 PM   #8
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Look(driving line) and listen(thottle inputs) to the fast guys. You can learn a lot. As for the GLC two points on the track you want to master. The sweeper and the crosstown. You master these two points on the track; you will be fast.


Pass you soon...
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:51 AM   #9
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Definitely seeing how somebody that knows the track drives is one thing you want to do - see where they brake, what side of the track and how far they are, where they coast, how they accelerate - softly/linearly (?) or just punch it out!
Obviously with the slow-in fast-out approach, you shouldn't go grandma-slow, but enough to have good speed and be able to hit the apex right instead of hitting it or coasting mid-track.
One thing I know I have to do is replace my rear uni's - worn-in pins mess with my braking/accelerating in corners, and go slower into a corner - i go too wide sometimes.
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Old 11-26-2010, 06:35 AM   #10
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Take a look at this also.
http://www.atomicmods.com/Categories...cing-Tips.aspx
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Old 11-26-2010, 06:11 PM   #11
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Thanks that was very helpful
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:43 AM   #12
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Glad I could help.Have fun!
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:02 AM   #13
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This is a hard one to answer, since racers also have different driving styles. The most simple answer is what ever allows you to be on throttle the longest and carry the most corner speed (the longer you can hold the throttle into the turn, the better and the faster you can get back on throttle, the better). I would say most of the really fast guys use a good amount of brakes. Also drivers adapt to a certain track. For example; The GLC track and Fort Myers track would be completely different. At the Fort you want a car the has a lot of rear grip, but pivots on the front to get around the 180's and then accelerates like a monster. At the GLC you need the car to carry more corner speed, less wheel lock from the steering and less brake. I think the biggest improvement the average racer can make is learn to drive tight lines, but stay clean. Do this with a slower motor than your competition. This will force you to drive super tight lines to keep up. Doing this for a little while, will make you drive better and then up the power plant every so often. Keeping that same tight line.

The other thing to consider if the gearing, shift point and clutch. This is also key to getting fast lap times. If you car shifts too early, you loose all the mid range from the motor. If the split is too high from first to second, the car will bog down when it shifts, etc, etc.

Hope this helps and remember opinions will vary, this is just some of mine to help out.

Good Luck,

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Old 11-30-2010, 12:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by dj apolaro View Post
This is a hard one to answer, since racers also have different driving styles. The most simple answer is what ever allows you to be on throttle the longest and carry the most corner speed (the longer you can hold the throttle into the turn, the better and the faster you can get back on throttle, the better). I would say most of the really fast guys use a good amount of brakes. Also drivers adapt to a certain track. For example; The GLC track and Fort Myers track would be completely different. At the Fort you want a car the has a lot of rear grip, but pivots on the front to get around the 180's and then accelerates like a monster. At the GLC you need the car to carry more corner speed, less wheel lock from the steering and less brake. I think the biggest improvement the average racer can make is learn to drive tight lines, but stay clean. Do this with a slower motor than your competition. This will force you to drive super tight lines to keep up. Doing this for a little while, will make you drive better and then up the power plant every so often. Keeping that same tight line.


The other thing to consider if the gearing, shift point and clutch. This is also key to getting fast lap times. If you car shifts too early, you loose all the mid range from the motor. If the split is too high from first to second, the car will bog down when it shifts, etc, etc.

Hope this helps and remember opinions will vary, this is just some of mine to help out.

Good Luck,

DJ Apolaro
thanks DJ that is so true i had slower motor that was on there last leg but keep my line close and had same time if not faster than blazin motor
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