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Old 07-13-2004, 08:34 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomkelley
Probably more wear on the clutch, but my point before was that a buggy has so much more soaking up the transfer of grip to the drivetrain load such as taller rubber tires and longer suspenstion travel. The slack metaphor used earlier doesn't make for a good comparison. I think it would be more like all that slack would have to be made of spring or rubber to relate to what is actually happening. Take for instance if you plot the physics of this on a graph. On the x would be load, and the y would be time. The load is determined by grip percentage, engine rpm, and weight at the wheels. So If someone actually had a good way of calculating all this math, then my guess would be that if you plot the load on the drive train curve of a buggy has to be a gradual incline over a longer period of time than a 1/8th onroad car. In an 1/8th onroad car, since theres more hp at higher rpm when the centax enages plus more grip available, shorter suspension travel, the graph of the load would be shorter and spike higher than that of a offroad buggy.
I think that basically covers it. It is all about rotating mass vs durability vs friction. It seems for 1/8th onroad belts seem to fit that side of the equation nicely. For touring cars which handle less power either drivetrain format seems to work well.

For all the advocates of shaft over belt take a read here: http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...=belt+vs+shaft

Two identical cars one shaft one belt. Interesting.
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Old 07-13-2004, 08:49 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by AMGRacer
I think that basically covers it. It is all about rotating mass vs durability vs friction. It seems for 1/8th onroad belts seem to fit that side of the equation nicely. For touring cars which handle less power either drivetrain format seems to work well.
FINALLY, someone says I'm RIGHT!!! Now can we move on and put this one to bed?
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Old 07-13-2004, 09:21 PM   #108
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I'll be running the shaft drive FW05 (sort of) at the Oz Nats this year, this is why I've started using it now.
I don't know which is better, shaft or belt drive, I do know that I'm doing faster lap times with this car than I ever have. This could be drive train efficiency or low C.G. or a bit of both.

The street out the front of my place is cambered as most are, the car tends to drift toward the gutter on both sides of the road depending on which side of centre I start on. If there is torque steer I'm just not good enough to notice.
There are a lot of very good 200mm tourers available today and I wouldn't base a decision on the belt v shaft thing as I don't know and I don't think anyone does.

I do know that the serpent clutch is just the best, the kyosho plastics and moulding quality is second to none, handy if you hit things and we all do. Mugen make a really good package as do HPI. The NTC3 is a force in the right hands and in the U.S. spares backup is second to none.

More often than not races are won by the best driver not by some special trick car or part.
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Old 07-14-2004, 06:58 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by rjl
But how many full size race cars run east west engine configuration? Formula 1 cars don't.
I don't notice any more deviation with the shaft car than I do with a belt drive.
Actually you're right - we have our terminoligy a bit wrong.
From your original post re the gearbox rotating in the opposite direction etc. we're really discussing a lateral weight transfer even though it may affect steering.
Torque steer is generally concerned with wheels that are delivering power (torque) as well as steering - typically in a front wheel drive car.

In a front wheel drive car most of the issue surrounds the steering axis and where it meets the contact patch of the tyre - plus other things like unequal drive shaft length and consequential unequal drive shaft angles.
Not having checked the geometry on an RC car, I'd think the steering axis isn't too bad since the top ball of the front knuckle is typically pretty much over the bottom one and therefore likely hitting the contact patch. This doesn't usually happen in full size cars 'cos the brakes get in the way.

Anyway, yes, F1 cars will experience the lateral weight transfer, but I'd bet they aren't capable of applying the same amount of "scale" torque as your RC engine and certainly not in the middle of their speed range. Also, they deliver 100% of their power through the rear wheels only.

EDIT: Ooops, should have read the last page - half of this stuff has been said.

Last edited by Taylor-Racing; 07-14-2004 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:10 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by rjl
I do know that the serpent clutch is just the best, the kyosho plastics and moulding quality is second to none, handy if you hit things and we all do. Mugen make a really good package as do HPI. The NTC3 is a force in the right hands and in the U.S. spares backup is second to none.

More often than not races are won by the best driver not by some special trick car or part.
Well said!!!
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:19 AM   #111
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I wonder since F1 cars engine bloc are a stress member of the chassis I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:26 AM   #112
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Well, the torque reaction of the engine will be fed into the chassis wheather the engine is a directly connected or suspended as in road cars.

They've changed the F1 rules these days, I think, but I wonder if they used traction control differently from one side to the other.
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Old 07-14-2004, 02:40 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by Taylor-Racing
Well, the torque reaction of the engine will be fed into the chassis wheather the engine is a directly connected or suspended as in road cars.

They've changed the F1 rules these days, I think, but I wonder if they used traction control differently from one side to the other.
And gyroscopic forces act at 90 degrees to the direction of rotation, we forgot to include that one.
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