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Old 09-28-2010, 09:53 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Here is a pic of the "ILS":

Can you show a picture of it from the front side?
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:10 AM   #47
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Default DLS on 1/8th

I see the DLS as a tool for one thing, a way to improve tire wear.

This past weekend I ran my 966 without a front sway, with very little caster, with about 1-1/2 rear toe and with the spoiler/ gurney strip at its lowest setting. My driving is not all the greatest but with more practice, I could definitely use more steering. And all this without even having a DLS system.

For me to use such a system, it would throw my car so off balance that I would have to go to extreme measures just to get the minimal of steering that would satisfy my need. I would have to:
  • Be limited in body choices that offer the most steering
  • Run harder shores on the rear.
  • Run the softest shores on the front.
  • Change spring and dampeners to softer settergs on the front.
  • Change spring and dampeners to harder settings on the rear.
  • Reduce rear droop
  • Possibly eliminate the rear spoler/ gurney strap altogether.

Its quite an extreme change. However if it improves tire wear such that I can make my tires last longer for the weekend meets or last through a very long main event without worries about tires, then it may be worth all the change. But for now, I'm more than okay without a DLS/DAX system on my 1/8th.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:33 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Here is a pic of the "ILS":




I ran it on qualifiers but took it out for the main. The track was very inconsistent in terms of grip. Some parts had good grip, other parts had almost none. I couldn't find I good compromise between the ILS and good steering. So I played it safe and went back to my last setting.

I hope that the track will be prepped better on the next race meet.
I don’t think you understand the concept of the DLS. If you have never seen it installed on a 733 the way it was mean to work you will not understand how it works. In your setup the 2 sides are not connected, and they have to be. I installed it on my car on the weekend, and as soon as I was done and started playing with it in my hands I understood how it works, its rather simple. And the amount of traction you get is very noticeable, the car doesn’t JUST have more traction, it steers different, it feels more like a 1/8th car.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:24 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
While having a dynamic camber seems like a great idea... DLS's fault comes from the fact that is basically linking left and right suspension. (My own opinion)

Even though, our cars are already equipped with a Anti-roll bar that does just that, DLS doesn't permit you to make any softer/harder changes between left and right wheel.

I have already finished my own "ILS" - Independent Link System. Which will create a dynamic camber but the only link between left and right wheels is the anti-roll bar.

I will post pictures of the assembly after my final testing on Sunday.


So, to contradict your opinion YR4Dude, the DLS/ILS can be adapted to any car.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:08 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Here is a pic of the "ILS":

Nice engine...

xe
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:08 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Here is a pic of the "ILS":




I ran it on qualifiers but took it out for the main. The track was very inconsistent in terms of grip. Some parts had good grip, other parts had almost none. I couldn't find I good compromise between the ILS and good steering. So I played it safe and went back to my last setting.

I hope that the track will be prepped better on the next race meet.
Please keep us updated on the New track results.

thanks
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:55 AM   #52
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i look at it this way a car is designed to work that way some inventive genious's think they are smarter then the comp who designed the car and try new stuff. the point is the car is only goin to work as good as the driver can make it work. serpent disigned this for their car if it really does work and makes a big difference car companies will come out with something of their own.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:21 AM   #53
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Guys has anyone successfully won a big race with this system DLS or otherwise ?
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:22 AM   #54
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Guys has anyone successfully won a big race with this system DLS or otherwise ?
It's only been used at a couple big races and it did make the main at the Worlds. I know Serpent just won the Dutch National but don't know if the system was on that car or not.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:59 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
It's only been used at a couple big races and it did make the main at the Worlds. I know Serpent just won the Dutch National but don't know if the system was on that car or not.
Yes it was.

http://www.serpent.com/news/13196/Ne...pent-733-.html
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:04 PM   #56
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listen up guy`s. This specific driver is fast with any thing, so this is no comparison. Try it if you want but realise that it does need tuning it just wright to get it working. My mate has it on his serpent and seems to like it but my speed compared with his speed has`nt changed. So if you are not satisfied when you try it ask the drivers who know it or ask Salven himself how to adjust it the wright way.

greetz JW
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:55 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Here is a pic of the "ILS":

I ran it on qualifiers but took it out for the main. The track was very inconsistent in terms of grip. Some parts had good grip, other parts had almost none. I couldn't find I good compromise between the ILS and good steering. So I played it safe and went back to my last setting.

I hope that the track will be prepped better on the next race meet.
I can't see how this compares to DLS. Yes your solution will keep camber constant when the chassis moves up and down. But when the chassis rolls the camber on the outside wheel will no longer be constant or even become positive... where the inside will become more negative?

To make roll camber constant the wheel on one side needs to "know" what the other side does hence the connection.

But I might be wrong as seeing the kinematics from a still picture isn't easy
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:01 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Julius View Post
I can't see how this compares to DLS. Yes your solution will keep camber constant when the chassis moves up and down. But when the chassis rolls the camber on the outside wheel will no longer be constant or even become positive... where the inside will become more negative?

To make roll camber constant the wheel on one side needs to "know" what the other side does hence the connection.

But I might be wrong as seeing the kinematics from a still picture isn't easy
Please correct me if I'm wrong; but wouldn't the same be achieved by ditching the independent suspension. and having a floating stiff rear axle? It would have less components, weigh less, and roll center could be adjusted by the height of the pivot points for the swing arms.

Kindest regards,
Lars.
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:13 PM   #59
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Please correct me if I'm wrong; but wouldn't the same be achieved by ditching the independent suspension. and having a floating stiff rear axle? It would have less components, weigh less, and roll center could be adjusted by the height of the pivot points for the swing arms.

Kindest regards,
Lars.
Actually yes but there are disadvantages to it as well.

Basically, a live axle rear (especially one with adjustable camber and toe) is great in the areas of camber control, the wide range of possible anti-squat and anti lift geometries, possibly beneficial rear steer geometries, etc. The downsides are high unsprung weight, non-independent movement (a one wheel bump will effect the camber on the other wheel), inability to get low roll centers, etc.

So basically what you have is live axle can work extremely well on smooth tracks where the unsprung weight isn't a problem and in oval racing where rear steer and other geometries can be used to get beneficial aero attitudes. The unsprung weight and high roll centers tends to kill it in road racing.

The DLS system is an attempt to get the camber control benefits of a live axle without the unsprung weight penalty.
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